Original Roman-written books

[LastRoman]

Hi, I want to know if exist any original book written by Romans, I mean the original, not any medieval or renaissance rewriting. From 2 BC - 5 AD century... If you can, post pictures or some articles to that book. Many thanks...

[removeduser_487563287433]

That depends on what you mean. Do you mean copies that were literally written down in that time frame?

[LastRoman]

That depends on what you mean. Do you mean copies that were literally written down in that time frame?

I mean original books or anything written by ancient Roman/Greek authors in that time frame which survived the ages... It could be copied later but I want to know if some of the original books still exist and are discovered.

Yes. There are several Papyrii with (fragments of) ancient texts.

Do you have any article, picture, or anything where I can read more about it?

[removeduser_487563287433]

I mean original books or anything written by ancient Roman/Greek authors in that time frame which survived the ages... It could be copied later but I want to know if some of the original books still exist and are discovered.

Loads.

[Flavius Nevitta]

One of the nicest looking ones I was able to see at an exhibition lately is the Artemidor Papyrus. Here some pics:











On the other side it contains a map of Roman Spain, which too is very nice.

[Flavius Nevitta]

Yes. There are several Papyrii with (fragments of) ancient texts.

[Trax]

Those articles have pics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyrhynchus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_of_the_Papyri

[LastRoman]

Thank you all, I want to see something like this...

[Trax]

Wiki sez that it is possibly a forgery.

[Flavius Nevitta]

Wiki sez that it is possibly a forgery.

But wiki is not up to date. Latest results have shown that the ink used is indeed 2000 years old (Salvatore Settis, Claudio Gallazzi, Bärbel Kramer). Still there is some debate going on, that's true.

[Trax]

That is good news. I was kind of disappointed when I read that after seeing those pictures.

[SigniferOne]

Flavius Netvita since you seem well-informed on the thing, what evidence do we have that it contains Artemidorus and not some later historian? PS. you mentioned it contains the outlines of Roman Spain.

[Flavius Nevitta]

Well I'm not all that well informed as I haven't read the congress papers. All I know is the info they offered while it was exhibited in Berlin. I only got the small catalogue and description because the whole volume is something around 400 Euros.

It contains text from Artemidorus but the text is not complete. The theory is that it was started by a copyist in Egypt but for some reason not finished and the paper was later used for drawing exercises.

The arguments for it being a fake are that some historians think it contains some words which might not have been known to Artemidorus and that no such drawn maps exist during the time.

Counterarguments for it being an original are the age of the paper and the ink, as well as a later find which seems to confirm that such maps did indeed exist.

They checked the map as part of the Topoi Project which deals with "The Formation and Transformation of Space and Knowledge in Ancient Civilizations". (but I don't know their stand on it atm because I'm not involved in that part of the project)

The map is very interesting as it is very detailed, showing the road system, towns, settlements and post stations along the roads and rivers. Problem is that the map does not contain any names. It seems that it is connected with the text of Artemidor on the other side of the paper but they haven't located the actual regions it shows so far afaik.

Maybe later on there will be more info on the map as they are currently measuring and analyzing the Roman road system in Spain and comparing that with the Roman milestones found there.

Maybe I'll go and ask about the current state next week if I have the time.

Did a quick search but couldn't find anything better than that:

Some pics of the map:

[SigniferOne]

That's what I'm surprised about though, why would the text be of Artemidorus if the map is of Roman Spain? How do we know that it is from Artemidorus?


EDIT: found a nice high quality version of the map:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Other images (from which you linked) here:

http://www.celtiberia.net/articulo.asp?id=1176


Samples of the pretty spectacular drawings found on the papyrus:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[

[Flavius Nevitta]

That's what I'm surprised about though, why would the text be of Artemidorus if the map is of Roman Spain? How do we know that it is from Artemidorus?

Oh, that's what you meant. The papyrus is not Artemidorus own work. It is a copy of Artemidorus text made by a copyist in Egypt with a map added. Maybe made for someone who wanted to travel there or for a library and they thought it a nice idea to add a map of the area?

[BemusedHorse]

The Aeneid.
Unintended innuendo abound.