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  1. #1
    Chernish's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    At the weekend on the advice of Tone I started a new campaign "Play Macedon", Alx, h/vh with
    modified settings Finance EDU - instead of
    taxable_income_bonus bonus 2800 requires factions (macedon,) and
    hidden_resource area8 and hidden_resource r7
    I put
    taxable_income_bonus bonus 2100

    I hate to rush and prefer a peaceful development, as a rule I do not attack first - wait
    until I attack by AI-Power. First, the only this way possible to obtain a serious
    opponent in the person of AI, secondly, the game becomes more is historical (and I
    am a historian).

    As in past campaigns, I started with the economic construction:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


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    Money was a little less, but in the long run, nothing has changed - I'm at no one
    attacked, built the economy and quietly evolved, so soon had so much money that
    could buy the Ptolemies over 50,000 city Lysimacheia.

    For me too, no one attacked. The war with Rome ceased very quickly after I took
    Dirrachium and defeated the Roman corps in Illyria - Rome sent ambassadors to sue
    for peace. I paid 25 000 Rome, and concluded not only peace but also the union.
    Another 15,000 were spent on a truce with the barbarians in Thrace - just for checking
    diplomacy. Find out if pay from 15 000 and more - AI willing to sign any treaty. And for
    50 000 easily sell the city.

    While I was bored, Sparta was at war with the Greeks, Rome as usual on the second
    turn had killed Hannibal, but at this time they did not fight with me as in the first
    campaign when I have long blocked Dirrachium but preferred to go to Spain and
    besiege Numantia.

    After 10 years, I realized that dying of boredom and predictability - are now the
    Spartans smash the Greeks, I'll smash Sparta, then go to Asia Minor, etc. It also
    became clear to me that it was not in some money (they became slightly smaller but
    since I'm less fighting and more built then in the treasury was all even better than the
    first time).

    I decided to slightly change the starting conditions - diplomatically and geographically.
    Changes:
    I gave Corinth Macedonia and Apollonia to Greek (which corresponds to the history -
    Corinth was domain dynasty Antigonids to 245 BC and again handed to Antigon
    Doson by strateg Arat in 223 BC; Apollonia unsuccessfully besieged by Philip V in
    216 BC)
    I established a state of war between Macedonia, Greeks, and Sparta, as well as
    Macedonia and Pergamon at the beginning. And I made an ally of Macedonia and the
    Seleucids and Carthage.
    And more to the construction of advanced barracks I put the pre-build high schools.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


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    The purpose of these changes: to draw the player in the conflict in Greece since the
    beginning of the game and give the Romans an opportunity to strengthen in Epirus. If
    we talk about the economy, it was bound to lead to increased military spending and
    the destruction of "fattening".

    I started the same way as the previous campaign:
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    But by the second turn of the campaign went quite differently.
    Sparta made peace with the Greeks, and they turned all their forces against
    Macedonia.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


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    Corinth, where, except the stone walls had nothing, was besieged by the Greeks. Two
    Greek army marched into Thessaly.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


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    As in Illyria was Roman stack, I had to go to the south royal army, and in Pella urgently
    recruit a new army. This proved to be prudent, because the Macedonian king stuck in
    Greece, and Rome soon fell from Illyria:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


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    (I have somehow failed to enter the state of war between Macedonia and Sparta
    since the beginning of the game. The Spartans on the Isthmus blocked Macedonian
    army the way to the besieged Corinth, and I attacked them. Therefore, the war in
    Greece is fully absorbed two Macedonian army, but against the Romans had form a
    third)

    As a result, if the first campaign finance development went like this:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


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    in the second campaign - like this:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


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    The downward curve in the first graph - the result of diplomatic purchases (Purchase Lysimacheia, an alliance with Rome, etc.)

    Results of two campaigns for ten years are similar:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Macedonia 546 first campaign

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    Macedonia 546 second campaign

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    I think this is normal, because the economic model is the same and it works correctly.
    But these are two very different campaign for ten years! Boring and quiet in the first case and full of hard struggle in the second.

    My conclusion: making the game balance, we should not be limited only by money. Diplomacy, war - no less important a tool to unleash the potential economic model of RS2 in full.

    During the second campaign, I had a lot of intense battles, great pleasure, and I noticed that the battle at the level of VH are interesting. I met a much more stubborn resistance to Rome in Illyria, as well as the Spartans in Greece. But Pergamum behaved passive than in my very first campaign - I forgot to register his alliance with Rome.

    Can I just point out that Tone settings in EDU working and AI is gaining a good army:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


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    But the ships on the seas is still small, although maritime activity and present.

    This is my file Descr_strat
    http://www.filefront.com/16477307/descr_strat.txt
    Last edited by Chernish; May 18, 2010 at 04:39 AM.
    Do what must be and let be what will

  2. #2
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    Very interesting difference. Downloading now, and will make changes.

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
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  3. #3
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    I'm going to upload changes. I altered a couple things. The troop composition in Apollonia (to remove the Corinthian units), added recruitment lines to EDB so that the Free Greeks could recruit units there, and left this:

    taxable_income_bonus bonus 2100 requires factions (macedon,) and
    hidden_resource area8 and hidden_resource r7

    It needs to have the hidden resource conditional otherwise they would get that bonus in any city that uses that treasury (Alexandria is one of them). I need to test the changes, and will then upload.

    Uploaded. I had to make a change in descr_regions.txt, so the map needs to be regenerated.
    Last edited by dvk901; May 18, 2010 at 06:25 AM.

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
    R.I.P. My Beloved Father

  4. #4
    Chernish's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    Yes, of course. I myself knew that the Greeks in the Apollonia should not give Achaean army but the other soldiers, but not knowing the intricacies of the system of recruitment in the RS, was afraid to do it.
    Do what must be and let be what will

  5. #5
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    No problem.

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
    R.I.P. My Beloved Father

  6. #6

    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    Thanks for this Chernish. Excellent work.
    I'll try and figure how to get more ships.


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  7. #7
    Chernish's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    tone,
    I noticed that the AI is actively building BIREME but much worse - triremes and deсers. By the time when the player flies a fleet of decer-kvinkvirem-trirem - against him face only BIREME and few triremes.

    And more important: AI bad united their ships in the squadron. Greeks and Romans have much ships, but not squadrons
    Do what must be and let be what will

  8. #8

    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    Maybe more to do with costs of dockyard upgrades? Currently they're way more expensive than barracks.
    Last edited by tone; May 20, 2010 at 04:02 AM.


    Under patronage of Spirit of Rob; Patron of Century X, Pacco, Cherryfunk, Leif Erikson.

  9. #9
    Chernish's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    I do not think so. AI builds all that is in the lineup consistently, if he has money. And hires - all the best on the basis of price / quality / quantity.
    At sea, the player usually creates a strong squadron + upgrade ships with new weapons / armor. AI makes it much worse. Maybe this should be to distort the ratio of prices so that for AI heavy ships were to "profitable" than the light? Biremes player still will not employ ... need to AI built at least triremes - not biremes
    Do what must be and let be what will

  10. #10

    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    I'll try and get the AI to do this.


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  11. #11
    Chernish's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    My Macedonian campaign develops farther the more interesting).

    After the victory in the Greek wars and the introduction of DvK901 traits "Governor in the city" for a while revenues have grown very strongly. But when the war with Rome begun and to recruit new army - they went down sharply.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    The Romans took away my city Salona in Illyria and invaded Epirus, while the Macedonian king landed in Italy and captured Tarentum.

    On this screen is visible the situation on the Adriatic. Roman stack is against my army at Cannae (the second of the same time moves from Capua). Another stack my resists in Dyrrhachium - and two more are going to help him from Dalmatia. Above, between the Alps and the Danube and Tisza Romans continue to hold 5 to 7 stacks of troops - Rome fights Getae.

    Uploaded with ImageShack.us

    Battle against the Romans are very stubborn, I lose only 1.5 times less than the Romans.Finally, I saw how AI united ships in the squadron. For this cause it took the Roman fleet of 5 or 6 defeats and invade the ships in the Tyrrhenian Sea. After that Rome brought against me, such a squadron:
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    And the Greeks began to build deceres and quinquiremes:
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    That`s good...
    Do what must be and let be what will

  12. #12
    Chernish's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    I lost the first battle AI-Rome - without options. For the first many times, and the first in RS2. Collided with early praetorian legion. I've lost 1,550 soldiers against them in 1200 and was forced to flee to the fortress. This is super! The war is extremely interesting. Two of my invasion of Italy repulsed AI and I CAN NOT break through to Rome! I have to go to indirect actions - as saying Liddel Garth - and to attack Sicily ...
    Do what must be and let be what will

  13. #13

    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    Excellent!
    The Praetorians are basically scripted to be spawned if Italy comes under attack or if Rome's territories fall below a certain number.


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  14. #14
    Chernish's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    Continuing my report about the Macedonian campaign

    As I said the initial conditions were changed from the outset to draw the player (Macedonia) in the Greek war and to allow Rome foothold in Dirrahiume and intervene in Greece. In part, this has been achieved - on the first turn Free Greeks moved two Armies in Thessaly, and I had to forget about Illyria, urgently strengthen the army and the ears to plunge into war in Greece. In Rome, it did not work perfectly - it actually lasted longer in Illyria and through two turns even invaded from there to Macedonia, but in the end was still defeated, lost possessions in the Adriatic and had sent the ambassador to ask the peace. But in Greece, the war was long and hard.

    The new configuration at the start of the campaign (Corinth in the hands of Macedonia) opens new possibilities for the rush, it's true, but I think first you need to do a campaign for the player seeking a historical role-playing game and the defense of Rush - a separate problem. I get a very interesting campaign - the most interesting game of RTW for all time since 2003.

    As a result, when the Greek war against the Free Greeks and the Spartans had won, the province of the rebels in the Balkans have already captured Getae created strong barbaric power on the northern borders of Macedonia. I'm really afraid of them, but situation went the other way. Free Greeks were in alliance with Rome. And besides, I too was in alliance with several enemies of Rome. Therefore, when the Macedonian army conquered the Greek city Salonae on the Adriatic, Rome sent a stack of legionnaires and declared war on me.

    Second Macedonian War was quite different than the first. If the Republican legions I defeated in general quite easy by my phalanx and cavalry, now Rome have early imperial legions and with them the battle of the VH went quite differently.

    I have twice landed in Italy with elite Macedonian troops - hypaspists, agema elite phalangite, basilikoi peltastai, macedonian thorakitai, bottias phalanx, hetairoi`s and thracians cavalry, thracian peltasts, agrianian infantry (best light assault infantry ) and cretan archers. I took Tarentum, won a victory, even captured the Roman eagle:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


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    but on both occasions could not pass for Cannae. Rome sent against me 3-4 stack and began the massacre about the plan:

    Battle of Cannae, 568 AUC
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    After this battle, I felt like Pyrrhus after Auskulum - "Another such victory and I will remain without an army!". And even worse.

    I had to evacuate, bring army back to Macedonia, to collect a new army and once again disembark - good that the AI slow in implementing the benefits after victoryes.

    But the second invasion was even worse than the first - the legion VII Claudia Pia Fidelis I'll remember for a long time. Besides that first victory over him was a "Pyrrhic victory", because the second invasion, this legion again out against me - and this time I lost!!! More specifically - could not win (not enough time), and because , I attacked, I counted a defeat.

    But if I speak honestly do not know what would have turned out if it battle was unlimited - was such a massacre that does not seem little, and the Romans stand as the wall - I was not sure what I can to overrun this legion - "stone wall".

    And so I think I was not defeated, but was unable to lift the siege of Tarentum, and when came to time of turn of the Romans - came two more Legions and the remains of my army rolled back. Of the whole army escaped, only 36 Cretan archers.

    After that, Romans captured Tarentum and Salonae and I was the first time in a game of RTW realized that I CAN NOT WIN 'just', I can not break through to Rome directly, I need something to think seriously to save the war ... preponderance of slowly but surely leaning towards Rome:

    Armee`s at 571
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    Financy 571 AUC
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    The Romans lost in the battles of just 1.5 times smaller than me, but because they had far more troops - to establish a wholly-owned impression that Rome instead of a severed head grow two new. One hundred percent hit with the realization of real ability to recover from Rome! And against the imperial legions, I in a 1:1 ratio could not be sure of victory.

    In general, I defeated another Roman legion invaded in Illyria near Dyrrachium and tried to go on the offensive. All I had at that time there were four army - and the more I could not support the finance. One of Byzantium, the second in Thrace - keeper of the east boundary. When I tried to get them to the west, the Greeks immediately attacked my empty provinces for its stacks. And I attack them lacked the strength - the Greeks in Nicomedia (against the Byzantines), and in Nicopolis (in Moesia against Thrace) standing on two adjacent stack vs my single ones on each direction.

    One of my army went north to Dalmatia and took the Salonae, and the second - the best composition - in Apollonia loaded onto a fleet and set sail for Sicily. I decided to strike at Rome from the south, establishing a base on the island, virtually nonexistent garrisons (Sicilian Roman army successfully sent down by my fleet).

    Everything was perfect on paper ...

    Losing Salonae, Rome immediately moved against my Dalmatian army three of their stacks. Macedonians sat in the siege. AI left a stack + 2 unit in the other besieging the city, and remaining stacks then turned back to the Danube against Getae.
    I have used this and tried to make a sally.
    Yeah, Nuts to me!
    Against my standard army (1 Regiment Agema, Hypaspists, hetairoi, a regiment peltasts basileus - part of the elite and the rest - good, but ordinary - macedonian thorakitai, bottias phalanx, thracians cavalry, thracian peltasts, agrianian infantry and cretan archers) - was an early Roman Praetorians legion.

    Battle phalanx vs pretorians near Salonae, 574
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    The first time I was beaten without options! Just split! In order not to leave the whole army on the battlefield, I had to remove troops from the battle and flee to the fortress. I lost 1,550 men against 1,200 for the Romans. This was the first wholly defeated. My standard army can not with equal force to the forehead to resist the imperial legions!

    In Sicily, my troops successfully captured the Greek city of Syracuse and waited for reinforcements and the governor to give them fortress and go forward. Meanwhile in the north to the island floats another Roman Imperial Legion. I see him (in terms of testing I play without the fog of war) but for the sake of historicism not going to sink it - it is not fair. And if I can win .. I`ll see.

    In general I'm in complete admiration. Yes, I do not rush from the start. I gave the AI the opportunity to develop (I'm afraid against Rush RS2 have not protection) - but I got the best campaign ever game in RTV with 2003 ! And Thank you developers for this.
    Do what must be and let be what will

  15. #15

    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    I hope we haven't made the AI Romans too strong!


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  16. #16
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    Actually, I wish every faction would resist invasion like that. It would certainly make war with someone a risky business.

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    Well historically speaking if anyone should be hard to conquer it's the Romans. Arguably the most tenacious, resilient race of man ever spawned...

  18. #18

    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    Oh, and not to forget, this is using VH battles


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  19. #19
    Chernish's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    Yes, VH battles distort a little battle mechanics but give a better chance for AI against the player
    Do what must be and let be what will

  20. #20
    Chernish's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Amended Macedonian campaign ALX, H/VH

    I had a very intense campaign against the Romans. II Macedonian War went 21-years - from 564 to 585 AUC. After many bloody battles in which AI very expensive to sell the victory over himself, and several times defeated me - Rome was finally captured.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


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    I think nobody doubts that the player is stronger than the AI. But in most mods after will deal with game becomes too easy, and usually I'm making this up as a campaign to make heavier. In the RS2 does not need to exert much effort to get interesting and intense campaign - this is very good!

    Some screen:
    Battle with Romans - Look how long it was!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    in the war with Rome is common.

    Falxmen attack
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    Late pretorians on the protection of Rome
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    Pretorians in battle
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    The economy is good, but when my troops went to Rome, In the Roman army re-emerged republican legions instead of imperial - it should be or is this wrong?
    Do what must be and let be what will

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