Second Balkan War- Why did Bulgaria believe they would win? also, suicidal wars

[0N3]

It seems obviously suicidal to me and i can't really see the logic of the Bulgarian king and military when they believed they had any chance at winning such an unfavorable war. So please tell me what made Bulgaria believe they could win...

Were they just so pissed because they didn't get the land they wanted that they didn't think straight?

Edit: alternatively, this thread can be about suicidal wars- post your own

[jo the greek]

Cause they thought they were the Prussia of Balkans in short

[0N3]

Did they have any great and unique tactics, weapons etc that would lead them to believe such a thing?

[jo the greek]

Did they have any great and unique tactics, weapons etc that would lead them to believe such a thing?

Well they had the support of russia

pretty much fanatism cause their national awaking started a few years back

and in comparison with other balkans they had bigger population.

[0N3]

I thought Russia supported Serbia?

Was this fanatism shared by most of the population or were there only a few who lead the country into war?

And even though they had more men, wouldn't they still be outnumbered against the combined forces of their enemies?

[jo the greek]

I thought Russia supported Serbia?

Was this fanatism shared by most of the population or were there only a few who lead the country into war?

And even though they had more men, wouldn't they still be outnumbered against the combined forces of their enemies?

In 1897 Greece attacked Ottoman Empire and got chrushed

this is an example of overestime and they did thought that their enemies would strike back or resist them.

[il padrino]

Well they had the support of russia

pretty much fanatism cause their national awaking started a few years back

and in comparison with other balkans they had bigger population.

Uhm they didn't have bigger population,just a larger army.

And Russia didn't support them.It was rather Austria at that point.


And for the OP,Bulgaria attacked Serbia and Greece.Romania and Ottoman empire got involved later,so Bulgaria was cought by surprise.

[jo the greek]

Uhm they didn't have bigger population,just a larger army.

And Russia didn't support them.It was rather Austria at that point.


And for the OP,Bulgaria attacked Serbia and Greece.Romania and Ottoman empire got involved later,so Bulgaria was cought by surprise.

Roumania gave the killing blow


Russia had impact on Bulgaria their help in 1870s wasnt far away

I mean for training and other info that a state need for war

[NikeBG]

And Russia didn't support them... Romania and Ottoman empire got involved later,so Bulgaria was cought by surprise.

The Romanian attack was anticipated, but the surprise came from Russia, which was supposed to cover that area according to the treaties with Bulgaria, but which chose to side with Serbia and thus allow the Romanians to march without resistance almost to the Bulgarian capital of Sofia.
And, generally, the Bulgarian attack was a very stupid decision and is rightfully called First National Catastrophe in Bulgarian historiography ("funnily" enough, the Second National Catastrophe is also caused by the same ruler (Tsar Ferdinand Saxe-Coburg-Gotha) and his majestic dreams). A probably better decision would have been to wait for the Allies to deal the first strike and thus gain the diplomatic advantage. In general, if it was only Bulgaria vs. Serbia and Greece, Bulgaria would have had a pretty good chance of winning (considering it had the best army in the Balkans at that time, highest mobilisation rate, highest mobilisation speed, superior technology and more or less highest population). But the diplomacy, on the other hand, was pretty ridiculous (and was the cause of the Second Balkan War in the first place (leaving some territories in Macedonia as "an arbitrary zone" to be negotiated later, after being occupied by foreign forces, f.e.)) and didn't assess the other factors at play (the interests of the Great Powers, reluctant to allow the creation of a strong and stable Balkan state etc). Basically, Ferdinand acted like a megalomaniac lonewolf in a world where everything is dictated by the will of the stronger buddies you or your enemies have.

Bulgarians were becoming too greedy and agressive

Excuse me? Are you trying to make us laugh or what?

Basically Bulgarians hoped that they'll caught Serbia and Greece unprepared

Considering the reason for the war was the piling up of Serbian and Greek forces along the Bulgarian temporary border, it's highly doubtful they "hoped they'll catch Serbia and Greece unprepared".

[il padrino]

Yes,they arrived 7 miles from Sofia,and at that point Bulgaria asked for peace.But it has to be said,that Bulgarian armies were concentrated on Serbia and Greece,so Romanians and Ottomans almost faced 0 resistence.

[Manuel I Komnenos]

Anyway they had been defeated by the Serbs and the Greeks in some important battles, so even if the Ottomans and Romanians hadn't gone to war, the war would have resulted in a stalemate or a Serb-Greek win..

As someone said, it's true that at that time Bulgaria was the Prussia of the Balkans.. They were an army with a nation just as Prussia.. If I remember well they had mobilized over 600.000 men..

[il padrino]

500,221 - 576,878 against 348,000 of Serbia and 148,000 of Greece.They also had 1,116 artillery guns, a ratio of 6:1 against the Greeks and 5:1 against the Serbian Army.

[Maximus IV]

Bulgaria had so huge army? Wow i didnt know that..

[jo the greek]

Bulgaria had so huge army? Wow i didnt know that..

It isnt the size but the way you use it

[il padrino]

Well the main reason of their defeat was that they simply wanted too much.They knew that Russia was not going to back them,that Romania was having pretensions on their territory,same as the Ottoman empire,and still they continued with their strategy of declaring war on both Serbia and Greece.They were lucky they didn't lost more land.

[CiviC]

Bulgarians were becoming too greedy and agressive, this is why Romania intervened to tip the balance. It was more a demonstration of force, no real fighting took place, more troops died of cholera then from battle.

Romania was not happy to see the balance of power in Balkans to be upset by Bulgaria, especially because Bulgaria was a potential ally either for Russia, either for Austro-Germans, both threats to Romania's security. With a Bulgarian superstate, Romania was to be crushed betweeen Bulgars to the South and Russians to the east or Austro-Germans to the North and West. Also the apetite for lands of Bulgarians was worrisome as the next targe for an expansionistic Bulgaria would have been Dobrogea, a territory long time claimed by Bulgarians as being theirs. Not at least the intervention of Romania had the merit to stop a potential long bloody war of attrition in Balkans and eventually the military intervention of Great Powers, as AH, Great Britain, France or Russia in the matters of Balkans.

[clandestino]

Basically Bulgarians hoped that they'll caught Serbia and Greece unprepared and unexpecting of the attack and counted that they will achieve fast victories wich will force Serbia and Greece to capitulate in the matter of days, that's why they attacked in the night and without formal declaration of war. Unfortunatelly for them both Serbia and Greece resisted theur initiative attack, the situation wasn't however lost for Bulgaria cause they still had a lot of offensive power to attack Serbia and Greece again but then Romania and Turkey attacked them from the back and sealed their destiny. I suppose that Bulgaria was expecting that Austria will keep Romania and Turkey away from the war, however this was huge miscalculation that cost them utter defeat.

Bulgaria had so huge army? Wow i didnt know that..

All Balkan armies in that period were pretty large compared with the modern ones thanks to the universal conscription, for example Serbia had population of some 2,900,000 in 1910. and it could mobilize some 350,000 men army while Bulgaria had around 4,300,000 and could mobilize around 600,000 men. Greece had population of simmilar size as Serbia but it mobilzed less soldiers in army because it had navy and had to recruit a lot of men for it.

[Maximus IV]

It isnt the size but the way you use it

Hey hey i got ur point

Basically Bulgarians hoped that they'll caught Serbia and Greece unprepared and unexpecting of the attack and counted that they will achieve fast victories wich will force Serbia and Greece to capitulate in the matter of days, that's why they attacked in the night and without formal declaration of war. Unfortunatelly for them both Serbia and Greece resisted theur initiative attack, the situation wasn't however lost for Bulgaria cause they still had a lot of offensive power to attack Serbia and Greece again but then Romania and Turkey attacked them from the back and sealed their destiny. I suppose that Bulgaria was expecting that Austria will keep Romania and Turkey away from the war, however this was huge miscalculation that cost them utter defeat.

All Balkan armies in that period were pretty large compared with the modern ones thanks to the universal conscription, for example Serbia had population of some 2,900,000 in 1910. and it could mobilize some 350,000 men army while Bulgaria had around 4,300,000 and could mobilize around 600,000 men. Greece had population of simmilar size as Serbia but it mobilzed less soldiers in army because it had navy and had to recruit a lot of men for it.

yeah thx .

[Dr. Oza]

Russia...

the ottomans crushed the greeks, and other balkan revolts, it was only when the brits, french and russian (during the greek revolt) or austrians(serbian revolt) or russians (moldavia, romania etc, ) intervened in some way that they lost...

[Manuel I Komnenos]

Russia...

the ottomans crushed the greeks, and other balkan revolts, it was only when the brits, french and russian (during the greek revolt) or austrians(serbian revolt) or russians (moldavia, romania etc, ) intervened in some way that they lost...

I don't think that the Ottomans ever crushed the Greek revolt.. It's true that there were difficulties in the Greek side, but Greece won many battles in sea and land against the Ottomans..