Why Can't BAI be Fixed?

Maybe I didn't notice it at first or the latest DLC/patch is to blame but it seems like every battle I play now that is medium sized or higher I am experiencing the *** Damn "leapfrog"/melee bug again.

Why can't CA program a BAI that knows how to:

1. Stay in formation until contact with enemy
2. Maintain that formation while exchanging volleys
3. Not bumble into other AI units and constantly reshuffle trying to find an open firing line of sight.

WHY???

The AI constantly tries to reshuffle its lines in an effort to not overlap and in doing so it never fires its muskets and simple stumbles into my lines. It's so frustrating that I want to do something violent. If an AI programmer could just get rid of the "avoidance logic" programmed into the BAI then this problem would go away.

We had this problem in ETW for about six months and they finally seemed to have remedied it with ETW patch 1.6 so WHY are we still struggling with this in Napoleon?

Endless rep to any modder who can fix this.

Originally Posted by ♔Dignan♔

It's so frustrating that I want to do something violent.

I hope you're not thinking of blowing the CA studio up?

Originally Posted by CzaD

I hope you're not thinking of blowing the CA studio up?

for CYA purposes.....of course not. I just get really tired of watching AI units blunder around running into and through each other while my lines shoot them to pieces. Seems like this should be an easy thing to fix.

I get the impression that CA is not a monolithic entity.

From the comments here and the CA structure, I personally think the AI programming department bombed it while DEV and others did a pretty good job...

So, perhaps to rephrase, why can't CA's AI department fix this? According to them, it's because the main AI programmer 'deserted' and left CA (like this guy was a demi-God and NO ONE ELSE can REPLACE him....)

Anyway, try some of the MODS. From the ones I've played, NER mod (by JaM) seems to tackle the BAI really well. I wasn't so impressed by some of the others, but NER felt like, to me at least, just really focused on BAI and realism and not so much other interesting things (like TROM 2's AOR system)...

Originally Posted by Erkli Pasha

I get the impression that CA is not a monolithic entity.

From the comments here and the CA structure, I personally think the AI programming department bombed it while DEV and others did a pretty good job...

How can you do a good job making a strategy game if the strategy part of the game, the AI, is useless?

HERASSY!!!!!!!!!

Do your enemies have fire and advance researched? It's quite a common cause for the leapfrog bug. I'd recommend a simple mod to remove that.

Originally Posted by Kohvi

Do your enemies have fire and advance researched? It's quite a common cause for the leapfrog bug. I'd recommend a simple mod to remove that.

Thanks for the suggestion. YOu are correct that F&A adds to this. I disable F&A for my armies and the AI armies through a small personal mod that I always play with on vanilla so it isn't caused by that.

Whether it was Battlefield, Half Life 2, Empire, Napoleon, or any other game I have modded throughout the years, one thing has remained consistent. I have found with just about every game I have ever modded that the AI's abilities can be exponentially increased by placing them on more level ground. For instance, Eidos' Imperial Glory had some excellent AI, when I modded the game to have more realistic ballistics on the weapons, the AI was able to discern that a charge was more effective, and so in my attempts i ended up creating a bug where the AI would charge almost 100% of the time, as opposed to exchange volleys. The only way to fix it was to make A.) the melee less deadly, or B.) A volley more effective, so that the two were on almost level ground.

Battlefield had the same problem, where the AI would spawn with Bazookas and Sniper Rifles because they had been coded with more advantages than the other guns. Empire and Napoleon are no different.

I've found that when you change the multipliers, and factors for things such as direction of attack, that the AI becomes more human like, because it considers options more equally. Before changing these factors you'd get an AI that noticed that going around the flank, or attacking from the rear would be the most beneficial move. After changing them you had an AI that was not afraid to openly engage your front ranks, while simultaneously rushing on the flanks, while still not perfect, it was a big step up from the asterisks.

To me,there´s a problem when two IA units meet in the same place because after this they advance (not meleeing) until they crash against human units (maybe this is why some people think it´s a Fire and advance bug);so if there are a lot of men per unit,the possibility of meet in the same place is bigger.Some mods like Luntik or Europe in conflict fix this a lot...only a personal view of a IA problem...

Hello Dignan mate,are we back to the 1.4 days of Empire? and again after a DLC/patch ?
I sure as hell hope not!!
As you know my system is still being repaired so i missed out on the latest patch for now,but before i was having Epic battles with Luntiks BAI implemented in Toons all in one Mod,but is that no longer the case ??
Have you tried Luntiks BAI or posted in his thread about this renewed screw up of the BAI ?

I think the purpose of the post is as to why vanilla is shockingly crap with its AI.

Because we can't even acces the BAI

If i were you, i would check out the Napoleon Order of War mod.
Just from reading a few posts by its creator, Marshal Beale, it seems hes solved the terrible BAI.
According to him, in the upcoming release of the mod, the AI will stand and fight in a shootout, and actually attempt flanking!
You can find it here if you want to check it out.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1529

keep in mind that the release i'm talking about is upcoming, and from what i've heard there is still a melee problem at the present time.

What do you still need BAI for?
Autoresolve all battles that are not drop-in enabled and play all others against humans.

Originally Posted by daniu

What do you still need BAI for?
Autoresolve all battles that are not drop-in enabled and play all others against humans.

But if I must rely on drop-in for battles can I realistically use my favorite mods without which I am unable to enjoy playing this game?

I think is a personal-peferences problem too,people talk about how good or not is IA according their expectations.I still remember the worst IA days of ETW and some people saying that IA was good and that they didn´t saw any bug...(days of obvious melee bug)...

Originally Posted by daniu

What do you still need BAI for?
Autoresolve all battles that are not drop-in enabled and play all others against humans.

QFT

I have tried many of the mods to include Nap Order of War. I am awaiting his new version to see if he has solved the problem. I have also tried LUntik's BAI mod, Tyrant's mod and a few others. All are great, but I still get leapfrogging and I fear the core of the issue can't be fixed by modders.

Morgan, I'm not sure if the patch did this or not. It may have been there all along but recently I'm seeing a lot of "unit entanglement" and resulting reshuffling to untangle in large battles. If we could force the AI to stay in a coherent formation longer I don't think this would happen. As it stands, each individual line unit will pick its own target and go after it. This results in them crossing each other's paths and walking into the back of other units.....enter leapfrog action.

Kind of OT but I wish there was a button for cavalry that lets them split up when chasing routing soldiers, they look retarded running around in a big group and chasing one guy while the rest of the enemy unit is somewhere else.