What am I doing wrong?

[Zanze]

Every campaign I start as Venice I either get screwed over at around turn 20 or turn 40. EVERYONE declares war on me from perfect relations, or an alliance, without warning around those times. I'm the one that loses crosses and reputation from getting the war declared on me. I spend my time expanding into the Byzantines to get Hungary rep at least and even they declare war.

Am I missing something?

[bɑne]

Stainless Steel version, difficulty level?

[roman glory]

Yep!It's TOTAL WAR!!!!!
Seriously, tell us what version, settings and submods are you playin' and maybe we could assist you

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Every campaign I start as Venice I either get screwed over at around turn 20 or turn 40. EVERYONE declares war on me from perfect relations, or an alliance, without warning around those times. I'm the one that loses crosses and reputation from getting the war declared on me. I spend my time expanding into the Byzantines to get Hungary rep at least and even they declare war.

Am I missing something?

Am I missing something?

Perhaps...Any Italian faction is going to have few friends, if ever that border it. Venice needs to become Fortress Venice from the word go. Things you know for a fact...

1. You won't be able to keep your alliance with the Pope.
2. You need to take Florence, Milan, Genoa, Innsbruck, and Bologna early on to secure your borders and solidify your economy.
3. Regarding Genoa and Sicily. It's you or them, it's only a matter of who, where, and when.
4. Venice needs to be your military Stronghold. Take the St John's chapter house, you can get your merchants guild in Genoa.

There's a section in Stainless Steel Standards: Campaign Bible {strategy guide} http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=329518
That's deals with Venice's starting moves.

[Zanze]

6.2 M/M. I usually do take over the majority of Italy fairly quickly. But that usually got me killed around turn 20. Spreading to Byzantines delays it to 40. My problem is the crusades after, really cant counter them too great.

I'll try out your tips next time I get to Venice, failed campaign after failed campaign has me a bit burnt out of them for awhile now. Thanks.

[Vespasian92]

Just give the Pope the green stuff and bye-bye excommunication and Crusades.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Zanze...

Sorry about your campaign... You could try a totally different culture or even bounce to a different mod to rekindle your passion... If you bounced over to Third Age you'd be pulling your hair out in no time flat......

[Ichon]

Zanze...

Sorry about your campaign... You could try a totally different culture or even bounce to a different mod to rekindle your passion... If you bounced over to Third Age you'd be pulling your hair out in no time flat......

I'm really enjoying Third Age. The scripted garrisons are nice as well the AI is frequently setting ambushes with all the trees on the map. I'm imagining it with RR/RC and BGR... some of the factions would be horrendous like that. Although I have to say the first game with Rohan was fun the alliances fell apart and weird wars sprang up everywhere. Now as Dwarves all the good races are in alliance vs the evil and its been that way 40 turns.


As for Venice... usually better to decide where you want to go right away. Italy or Greece. Moving towards Greece and Byzantines is usually a bit easier as far as war vs Pope. Just garrison Venice well and the other Italian factions attacking it will get themselves excommunicated while you carve out space in Greece. It usually takes 3 attacks for a faction with goods relation with Pope to get themselves excommunicated so be patient. Going on offensive leads to your faction being the one excomminicated.

If you decide to go for Italy you have to prepare. A lighting attack on Genoa where Pope doesn't have time to end the war, get Genoa and Milan/Bologna/Pisa etc whatever is on the mainland all in one turn. Don't worry about Marsailles or whatever else Genoa has for awhile. Sicily usually will DoW at some point but if they are distracted with Moors they might not. You can sell Ragusa to HRE or Byzantines either if you want Hungary distracted or your northern border secure for a little while.

[ash874]

im playing with venice a lot and i dont know why you get into such trouble
especially on m/m
whoever said that alliance with the pope is temporary, thats not true
i always make an alliance with him which lasts for the bulk of the game
what you need to do to keep the pope on your side is:
not to make alliances with everyone you see
because once two of your allies start a war between them
you will be forced to pick one
shattering your alliance with the other will lower your standing with the pope significantly
after just one such incident he will probably not mind casting you aside at first oppertunity
so wait a little and see which teams form
ally with the pope's team
thats all there is to it

fighting byzantium is not recommended
every conquest will make your borders longer and force you to keep huge armies
you need to conquer cities which wont add additional borders and additional neighbors
sicily will be great for that
maybe even worth to bribe them to attack the pope or his allies
after one or two they will get excommunicated

[Zanze]

I tend to only ally with the Pope and Hungary. Everyone else is a backstabbing jerknugget. Tried a Templar campaign and it is...well...a hundred times easier. Turn 73 and the Fatimids are stuck in Luxor(Spain took Cairo in the crusade) and I don't feel like running an army down there. At war with Kwarezmians...cake. Have 2 10 eye'd assassins breaking their buildings and killing their generals and dozens of 10 eye'd spies causing unrest and opening their cities. I own everything from the starting point to Alexandria, and from Adana to Mosul. (Spain again took Baghdad- with my help)

Anyways, so far it's been a relatively easy trip. Tons easier than Venice. I'm sure all hell will break loose when mongols come...or when the French finish their european conquest by taking out Hungary. Damn French kicked out England and -wrecked- the HRE.

I just suck as Venice

[k/t]

The Mongols will peter out by the time they reach Mosul. Crush the Egyptians once and for all now and turn your attention to the next guy.

[Ichon]

Part of it might be Templars roster vs Venice plus how Venice is spread out. Personally I like Pavise spearmen... cost efficient at holding a line and have enough numbers to weaken most enemy units even if they don't win. However both Genoa and Venice take awhile to get going roster wise. Venice has it a bit easier starting with Ragusa but both take awhile to get access to their better units.

Templars even though start surrounded are very concentrated and have superior roster to their enemies for a long time so I agree they are usually easier.