Toledo Riot and the Nazis ...

[Oldgamer]

I'm really surprised about the lack of a thread or response on TWC about the riot in Toledo, which happened over the weekend. Concerning how this thing happened, it's of concern ... not only to Americans ... but to the West, in general.

For a brief summary (for those who may not know about it), several white supremacist groups (including the NSM, the National Socialist Movement), were planning a march in an almost-black neighborhood of Toledo, Ohio. The march didn't take place, but several black gangs went on a rampage, attacking police and ambulances, civilians, looting, and committing at least one case of arson. There have been over 100 arrests so far, for offenses which include aggravated riot, aggravated assault, looting, arson, and others.

I've been keeping track of the National Socialist Movement (they call themselves the NSM ... America's Nazi Party). Some of you might be able to guess why I'm tracking them, but I'll keep that to myself, for now. On the surface, they look like any other radical, fringe element white supremacist group, in spite of their spiffy-looking 1930's SA and SS uniforms. But there's more to them than this.

They claim to have a membership and/or support base of up to 50,000 people. But I can reliably tell you that this support base is far larger than this. And there's a "mind" working somewhere in the NSM.

One of their primary leaders is a fellow who calls himself Commander Jeff Schoep. I'm still not sure if the mind is his, or someone else's, but whoever it is, the guy knows how to get results.

To illustrate, concerning the Toledo riots:

First, they very carefully picked out a neighborhood that had large and mostly pre-teen gangs, where the few white people who live there are intimidated on a daily basis.

Next, they got a permit for their march, and started gearing up. But their preparations did not include a lot of their own security people, surprisingly.

Over the weeks prior to the march, they appeared on television and radio stations all over Toledo, talking trash about black people in general, and also making pointed references to communists in the Toledo area. The march itself was a march "Against Gang Violence", and their remarks in general were carefully designed to anger a lot of people, but especially, the gangs.

On the morning of the march, they put only 24 security people ... yes, Brownshirts ... in two different locations on the march route, to secure the sites. The gangs started showing up, along with representatives of "communist" groups. Sadly, for the NSM, the JDL didn't show, but that was alright. They really weren't Jew-baiting, on this morning.

According to Schoep ... and this is backed up by independent observers ... the communists started to stir up the gangs, passing out rocks, bricks, eggs ... anything that could be used to attack and humiliate the Nazis with. But they weren't about to get the chance.

The police saw what was happening, and asked the NSM to leave. Completely in lockstep, and without a lot of complaint (although one Brownshirt did shove a police officer ... and was NOT arrested), the Nazis complied, and left Toledo immediately.

What happened then was that the gangs ... deprived of their the source of their anger, turned that anger towards the large police presence. They attacked police and fire vehicles, assaulted police officers, attacked local white-owned businesses (including one shown in the most common video of the riot ... a bar owned by an 86-year old man, which had been a fixture in the neighborhood for some 60 years, and which was subsequently torched), and attacked almost anyone who moved.

When all was over, Toledo was in the business of searching its soul to figure out why this had happened, and Commander Schoep and the NSM were very happy, indeed.

Why were they happy?

They had "proved" the subhuman and violent nature of blacks, and "showed" that communists are a deadly threat to America.

More important, they're getting membership applications and fees from all over America. And this was the real reason for the Toledo March, aided and abetted by the News media, which mentioned the National Socialist Movement some 500 times over the weekend, including AP, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, and FoxNEWS.

Free publicity to millions of Americans, with the worst among us responding. This is what the Nazis wanted. Like I said, there is a "mind" among the Nazis ...

Opinions?

[Erik]

In Europe this wasn't a big issue in the media.
I also don't see why this is of concern to other countries, unless the nazis take over America but I don't see that happening.

America has racial issues, but they aren't caused by some nazi's but by the social injustice that still exists.

[Vincenzo Morello]

The Nazis will have there time once more wether it be the BNP (British National Party) here in Britain or the NSM in the USA wether people like it or not Fascism does work both Italy & Germany when under Fascist control prosperd. The Fascists will have there time once more but for now the communists have there rotten claws in GB and other EU countries. Im not rascist i have black friends but i believe in Fascism to the extent of being Nationalist and the belief that Britain diserves to become the greatest power on earth that it once was.

[Oldgamer]

The Nazis will have there time once more wether it be the BNP (British National Party) here in Britain or the NSM in the USA wether people like it or not Fascism does work both Italy & Germany when under Fascist control prosperd. The Fascists will have there time once more but for now the communists have there rotten claws in GB and other EU countries. Im not rascist i have black friends but i believe in Fascism to the extent of being Nationalist and the belief that Britain diserves to become the greatest power on earth that it once was.

Although I don't want this thread to develop into a pro- versus anti-fascist flame war, I do feel the need to respond to your post.

You can be a nationalist without being a fascist. I'm an American nationalist, and unabashedly so. Perhaps Britain will regain her greatness again. My guess that the worldwide empire will not return, though. But fascism will not make Britain great, nor will communism, or any other -ism.

I believe you when you say that you are not a racist. But once again, I want to stress to you that you do not have to be a fascist to be a nationalist. Nationalism is not the sole possession of fascist ideology.

Erik said:

America has racial issues, but they aren't caused by some nazi's but by the social injustice that still exists.

Most of these racial issues are caused primarily by the welfare state, which regards African-Americans as a voting bloc to be kept in perpetual poverty (and therefore, dependance). They are also caused by the community's own leaders, who aren't doing much to get their constituents beyond the "struggle" of the 1950's.

I've lived in America all of my life, and the only racists I've ever met were in the KKK, the NSM, and the NAACP (the two former organisations which I've kept "tabs" on).

[Lord Tomyris]

Full power back to the British monarch! Wooot!

[Erik]

Most of these racial issues are caused primarily by the welfare state, which regards African-Americans as a voting bloc to be kept in perpetual poverty (and therefore, dependance). They are also caused by the community's own leaders, who aren't doing much to get their constituents beyond the "struggle" of the 1950's.

I don't see how welfare keeps the Afro-American in poverty, but this can be discussed in the welfare thread.
But I do beleive the American state in general doesn't do the right things to help Afro-Americans come out of poverty.
Consequently the Afro-Americans feel left behind by their government and become angry.

I've lived in America all of my life, and the only racists I've ever met were in the KKK, the NSM, and the NAACP (the two former organisations which I've kept "tabs" on).

I don't say they are racist.
With racial issues I mean inequality between races and anger amongst races.
I don't think many blacks beleive whites are lesser people, but they are angry that they have never gotten the same chances in life.
And most whites don't think blacks are lesser people, but they aren't willing to help them.

[Garbarsardar]

The Nazis will have there time once more wether it be the BNP (British National Party) here in Britain or the NSM in the USA wether people like it or not Fascism does work both Italy & Germany when under Fascist control prosperd. The Fascists will have there time once more but for now the communists have there rotten claws in GB and other EU countries. Im not rascist i have black friends but i believe in Fascism to the extent of being Nationalist and the belief that Britain diserves to become the greatest power on earth that it once was.

I'm sure the Nazis will appreciate your presence in their ranks, even if you are a person of mixed blood, or accordingly to the revision of the Nuremberg laws a "bastard". Read it all here

On topic now, what happened in Toledo is standard Nazi tactics from the choice of the area, to the retreat and the blame game. I shouldn't think many people will fall for that. The association that remains in most of the cases is : Nazis=trouble.

[Vincenzo Morello]

I'm sure the Nazis will appreciate your presence in their ranks, even if you are a person of mixed blood, or accordingly to the revision of the Nuremberg laws a "bastard". Read it all here

On topic now, what happened in Toledo is standard Nazi tactics from the choice of the area, to the retreat and the blame game. I shouldn't think many people will fall for that. The association that remains in most of the cases is : Nazis=trouble.

Shut up Toff

[Garbarsardar]

Shut up Toff

No, since this is a good example of how misguided people end up in Nazi ranks. You see usually the champions of racist theories are very far from the racial stereotype they want to promote. Take Hitler, Julius Streicher or Rudolf Hess. One should be half blind to think they belong to the Aryan race, with their dark skin and small eyes. The same happens with Nazis everywhere. Their first concern is racial purity and white supremacy, and at the same times the poor members of the racist organisation would be outside any racial standard they try to promote.

They are actually so desperate for membership that they recruit anyone but black or Chinese people-because then it would be too obvious- resulting in the rather funny site of olive skin aryans waving their thin hands. Seeing how ridiculous they are I really wonder if they do it on purpose to conceal the real level of threat they represent.

[Bwaho]

The baiting strategy is used by such groups (nazi) here too. They hold peaceful demonstrations and wait for the communists and immigrants to start getting violent, it usually ends up with communists throwing projectiles at the nazis and anarchists smashing stores and cars. It's a nice little strategy I must say.

[LordSaradain]

Strange, I read international newspapers daily and I havent seen anything on this.

Quote: and committing at least one case of arson.

case of arson??? Did you misspell the word? what is arson?

[Oldgamer]

Strange, I read international newspapers daily and I havent seen anything on this.

Quote: and committing at least one case of arson.

case of arson??? Did you misspell the word? what is arson?

In the united States, arson basically is the deliberate criminal burning of a building.

In the riot situation, the only building burned was one holding a bar that had been in the neighborhood for about 60 years, and was owned by a man in his 80's. The news helicopters focused on the assault on the bar for a considerable length of time.

Consequently, north Indians, Iranians, Russians, Spaniards and Norwegians are all Aryans.

A very good description of the "Aryan". If one goes to the NSM's wbesite, one will find that they have expanded the list of racially-acceptable persons to be anyone who is caucasian. The Nazis in Germany would not have accepted a Russian or a Spaniard, for example, as an Aryan.

In 1936, the German government specified who was and was not an Aryan in their Law for the Protection of German Blood and Honor. In this law, they more than protected people from Austria (like Hitler, whose own ancestry was extremely dubious), and even extended the protection of the law to Christ who, after all, was only 1/2 Jewish, and didn't practise the Jewish religion, being the Founder of the Christian religion.

By the way, to anyone just getting onto this thread, I am purposely not listing the website to the National Socialist Movement, because I will not give them the slightest bit of help. If you absolutely must know, you can pm me or Google it.

[Bwaho]

If one goes to the NSM's wbesite, one will find that they have expanded the list of racially-acceptable persons to be anyone who is caucasian. The Nazis in Germany would not have accepted a Russian or a Spaniard, for example, as an Aryan.

Indeed, it seems they are too desperate for new recruits so they get russians, spaniards and koreans to join their ranks! According to Hitler the russians belonged to the "slavic" group which was lower than the germanic group.

What's interesting is the Nazis trip to Neapal. They tried to find ancient aryan relatives. In this program on the discovery channel (where I saw this show) they said the nazis managed to find links to support their theory. It's really interesting to see nazis shaking hands and taking pictures with the people in Lhasa. You should see that documentary...sorry for going off topic

[Erik]

What's interesting is the Nazis trip to Neapal. They tried to find ancient aryan relatives. In this program on the discovery channel (where I saw this show) they said the nazis managed to find links to support their theory. It's really interesting to see nazis shaking hands and taking pictures with the people in Lhasa. You should see that documentary...sorry for going off topic

I've seen that and it was indeed interesting.

But I'm convinced the Germans (and all other Europeans) were completely wrong about the Aryans.
In reality the Aryans (if we should even call them that) weren't white, and we didn't descend from them.
The ONLY "evidence" for the Aryans being white was a text that talked about a "war between light and darkness"
Light was interpreted as white skinned, but it could just as well mean "good", and this makes more sense to me.

It was also beleived the "Aryans" were nomadic because they used chariots, but chariots are COMPLETELY useless for nomads.
Chariots are only usefull around permanent settlements, where people had time to construct roads.

This makes "Aryans" local, coloured, farmers from the Indus valley, not normadic people from the Caucasus.

There is a thread about this somewhere of this forum.
edit: here you go http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18095

[Bovril]

Whilst I agree with most of what you say your understanding of the term Aryan is off the mark. An Aryan is any person descended from the Indo-European migrations from the Caucus region. Consequently, north Indians, Iranians, Russians, Spaniards and Norwegians are all Aryans. You are thinking of the North Germanic ideal. Even Hitler didn't believe in this, though some Nazis do. Hitler was an Austrian, therefore Germanic, but like most Autrians he was not tall and slender like a North Germanic person, and like many Austrians and Southern Germans he had dark hair and eyes. That didn't stop him being a pure Aryan or German according to his own ideology.

[Farnan]

Those NAZI bastards are a desgrace to everything American. If I was the leader of the Federal Government and I would declare them and their "buddies" the KKK and Skinheads and declare all of them terrorist organistations. I would then freeze their assests and because they advocate violence not allow them to meet. Any time they organise arrest them all and toss them in Gitmo with the Islamic extremists. The only problem with that is the Catch-22 that if we don't let one group organise, even the bastard NAZIs, it might lead to awful consequences.

I don't usually swear, but those guys get me angry.

[Vincenzo Morello]

Those NAZI bastards are a desgrace to everything American. If I was the leader of the Federal Government and I would declare them and their "buddies" the KKK and Skinheads and declare all of them terrorist organistations. I would then freeze their assests and because they advocate violence not allow them to meet. Any time they organise arrest them all and toss them in Gitmo with the Islamic extremists. The only problem with that is the Catch-22 that if we don't let one group organise, even the bastard NAZIs, it might lead to awful consequences.

So you make the KKK and Nazis terrosist groups in your preciuos countries but what a bout the Nation Of Islam and Black Panthers and what about Bloods and Crips?

[Oldgamer]

Those NAZI bastards are a desgrace to everything American. If I was the leader of the Federal Government and I would declare them and their "buddies" the KKK and Skinheads and declare all of them terrorist organistations. I would then freeze their assests and because they advocate violence not allow them to meet. Any time they organise arrest them all and toss them in Gitmo with the Islamic extremists. The only problem with that is the Catch-22 that if we don't let one group organise, even the bastard NAZIs, it might lead to awful consequences.

I don't usually swear, but those guys get me angry.

Completely understandable, Farnan.

So you make the KKK and Nazis terrosist groups in your preciuos countries but what a bout the Nation Of Islam and Black Panthers and what about Bloods and Crips?

I don't see a lot of difference between them, Vincenzo.

During the 1990's, the Nation of Islam made an attempt to obtain $1 billion from Libya. They weren't going to spend all of this money on social programs (except to increase the level of their recruitment).

Also, the violent history of the Black Panther Party is well-established.

I think that the United States government should take some steps, short of making them illegal (which would only incite all of these groups to extreme measures), to curtail their activities. The IRS is a useful tool for this purpose, and the Patriot Act could be useful, also.

Bloods and Crips, Latin Kings, et al are simply criminal organizations, and should be treated by government in the same way the mob is.

[Farnan]

Through them in too, I don't care which side of the aisle their on, if they advocate violence and overthrow of the US government to establish a totalitarian government then they are terroists in my eye.

[Farnan]

Actually a race war would play right into the hands of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and that bunch. If there is a war between Minorities and Whites, then they can say they were right all along. In any such war the only winners are the extremists, like the nazis in Toledo. Speaking of nazis, tommorow I am going the Holocaust Museum with my German class and to anyone who thinks nazis aren't too bad should go there. I went there before and it is very moving.