Think the "American Dream" is dead?

[IronBrig4]

Wow, look at where the American economy is going. The middle class is getting hammered left and right. The cost of living is going way up, and wages are actually decreasing. The rich, on the other hand, are getting more and more money and assets. And no, this won't be a proletariat/bourgeoisie post.

My prediction is that in 20 or 30 years, America will be like Argentina or Chile. The wealthiest 5 percent will be living in luxury, while the rest will live in varying degrees of poverty. Nearly all American families are living under massive debt, and the housing and credit bubbles are about to burst. More and more lower-middle and middle-class jobs are being outsourced and our small businesses are going under *cough WALMART cough*.

I'd have to say that the American dream is having its last gasp now. If you're born poor in America, you're much more likely to remain poor than your Western European and Japanese counterparts. America doesn't reward merit or hard work anymore. My Dad has a master's degree and is among the best in his field, but is always the first to get axed because of his age. I'm not sticking around a country that supports such a callous, cannibalistic economic culture.

[Erik]

The American dream has always been just that, a dream.
Compared to other industrialized nations only very few Americans who are born poor end up rich.

About the American economy: I predict it wil be over in about 15 years.
It's simply not sustainable and wil collapse when people stop lending money to America
About 400 billion a year is needed from forreign investors, and they are rapidly becomming more reluctant.
But what is most worrying is that American don't seem to worry at all, so they aren't interested in changing their way of lives.

This I heared somewhere and found it a very good metaphore for the US economy:
"We are racing towards a brick wall, but we are doing so in a luxery car"

[Big War Bird]

The American dream has always been just that, a dream.
Compared to other industrialized nations only very few Americans who are born poor end up rich.

I was born poor, we had an outhouse and farm animals living in the house at times. No air conditioning and no heat in the winter. Four of us seven kids went to college, the other three could have and should have. Amoung us and our spouses we count one doctor, one nurse, one professor, an executive at a major accounting firm, a machine tool expert, a bank loan officer, two CEOs, one COO, an Eli Lilly supervisor, a firefighter, a day care operater, a governmental b'crat and a housewife. Then there is me I just turned 30 and have been semi retired for almost 2 years.

[Garbarsardar]

Could someone state what exactly is the American Dream in the third millenium? Because I dont think it is a dishwasher and a T-bird anymore. Or a college admission.

[Zelech]

That gets about 7 miles to the gallon.

But seriously, it is because America does not have in its culture nor laws(education) to have constant motivation, to apply oneself diligent and honorably, to work to THINK. My family has risen--slowly, but steadily. Intelligence isn't genetic.

[chaco taco]

I do beleive the American dream is dead, per say that most other nations (china, western Europe, eastern europe etc) is much easier to find a job then it was a long time ago, and the only places where moving to the U.S. for economic purposes seems goood is from poorer areas of Asia, Africa, Latin America, and the middle-east.

But 15 years seems a bit early to me, maybe 30 to 40? are economy is dropping, but it isn't freefalling....

[Pra]

Is the American Dream dead? No.

It is indeed a flawed conjecture that America will cave in on itself at the rate it is going-only if reforms are not carried out immediately. I will concede that our economy, and our culture therein, is hardly what anyone would term 'thrifty husbandry,' and yes we are incurring debt in trade, especially to China; however, this ailment can be assuaged, if we are thrifty, manage our fuel economy or try to look for a renewable fuel source, and apply and maintain conservative economic policies, policies that don't give tax cuts exclusively to the wealthy.

An unfortunate truth that I will brush upon is the lack of job-security in America. The arduous, in some cases, are not rewarded when companies exercise 'downsizing' simply to maximize the latter's profits-it seems that our conservative right, in its moral crusade, has failed to admonish this 'minor' injustice. Nevertheless, I will pursue living here, in this great country, working diligently for a company till I am a victim of down-sizing and then start my own rival empire, avenge my loss by buying the company that had fired me, and become the richest Indian in America.

[1{H][NA]

i dont think the world can afford to have the american economy fail.

[Poltemly]

without the american economy, china would have a massive trade problem, its main trading partner to whom they export to is now gone, without china buying japanese and western eruopean heavy machines, those economies would hit massive recessions as the domino effect continues in taking out various part of the world economy, soon agricultural machines wouldnt be produced due to the massive depression, causing world wide starvation. no the american economy wont fade eaisly, it is absolutly imperitive to the rest of the world

[bigfootedfred]

on the subject of the American dream.

if it is dead.
when did it die?

the most relevant book to this topic, would obviously be John Steinbeck's "Of Mice And Men"
in fact im very suprised no one has yet brought it up

for this topic, it is absolute required reading.
if you have not read it, read it borrow it form your library, buy it, just bloomin read it ok?
the book quite brilliantly shows the entire melting pot of America.
from the oppressed black's and oppressed women, to the typical redneck Curly, it has just about every stereotype.

also, notice how the Stable buck, though black, has a name, while curlys wife, doesn't, she is only ever referred to as curlys wife.
and it tells the story's of each character in relevance to there own search for the American dream, and how in the end, it didn't exist for any of them

as i said, required reading for this topic.
in fact, i haven't read it in while, i i think i might go get myself a nice cup of coffee, get in my comfy chair, and probably be there till i reach the end! becuase whatever else it is, its one of the best books ive ever read.

[ncgrk01]

The problem w/ the american dream is that everyone is preparing for the day they get rich

[Trey]

Whoever says the american dream is dead are kidding themselves. "oooooooo only the rich have a chance, bla bla bla." My grandpa grew up poor, but he worked hard EVERY SINGLE DAY OF HIS LIFE, and he succeeded, owning an extremely succesful buissness, and retired a millionare.

[IronBrig4]

Whoever says the american dream is dead are kidding themselves. "oooooooo only the rich have a chance, bla bla bla." My grandpa grew up poor, but he worked hard EVERY SINGLE DAY OF HIS LIFE, and he succeeded, owning an extremely succesful buissness, and retired a millionare.

Bully for him. But for every remarkable individual who is born poor and manages to succeed like that, there are hundreds who can't. The more common experience involves somebody who works hard every day, but then gets downsized because their CEO wants to make the stockholders' net worth go up a tenth of a percent. You should've seen my city (San Diego) in the early 90's. Tens of thousands of people were laid off from the aerospace companies. The CEO of General Dynamics axed 10,000 workers... and USED THE MONEY TO GIVE HIM AND HIS BUDDIES A BONUS. Although I am loath to wish misfortune upon anybody, I sure hope that CEO gets his brains blown out. That is the reality of American economic life. You excel in school and get a college degree, you work hard, and then you're left with the clothes on your back while your bosses play golf.

I think that the dream in "Of Mice and Men" was simply about having a sanctuary, where you can get by on your labors. That's why several other men on the farm asked to help out. They offered to help with the crops or raise rabbits in exchange for shelter and food. It would be a place where the Depression would have no effect.

[Inkompetent]

Bully for him. But for every remarkable individual who is born poor and manages to succeed like that, there are hundreds who can't. The more common experience involves somebody who works hard every day, but then gets downsized because their CEO wants to make the stockholders' net worth go up a tenth of a percent. You should've seen my city (San Diego) in the early 90's. Tens of thousands of people were laid off from the aerospace companies. The CEO of General Dynamics axed 10,000 workers... and USED THE MONEY TO GIVE HIM AND HIS BUDDIES A BONUS. Although I am loath to wish misfortune upon anybody, I sure hope that CEO gets his brains blown out. That is the reality of American economic life. You excel in school and get a college degree, you work hard, and then you're left with the clothes on your back while your bosses play golf.

Yep. Go capitalism and humans. A very bad combination.
And a communistic society won't work as long as humans participate in it either, so I guess we are all doomed. US is the prime example of how bad the results of capitalism will be, and yet all other countries in teh world are following it to some degree, falling down the same pit of a failed society at vairying speed.
I don't bother with politics anymore. The only thign one can do is to slow down the way to the same end as everyone else.

It is a too big operation to do anything about it if not about all countries in the world do whatever is decided at the same time, and that will never happen because guess what! We are humans! Well, could be any mammal. Heck anything living. Life is based around the ego of the individual, and too few satisfy their ego by doing something that is good for others, thus everything will crumble.

[-=Maximus Whitewolf=-]

I've always wondered about "the American Dream" concept. How I see it that it is possible that even if you are from poor conditions you have the "chance" to become rich or wealthy if you're able and willing to work hard and so on...and "that's what is so great about america..." So does that mean like that's not possible anywhere else in the world? I live in Finland and I've noticed many times that people in the US have stated that same thing over and over again. I just find it amusing since I don't think it's any different here. One can become well educated and wealthy in Finland or elsewhere in Europe if one is willing to work hard to achieve one's goals.
Although in Finland its really hard to become wealthy becouse of our taxing policy.

I have also worried about the attitude of oil/fuel consuming in the states. People haven't really become aware (from our point of view) that oil shortage is becoming really a serioius problem. (Perhaps now after Katrina people think differently) Wealthy people still think that bigger (with cars) is better and don't mind the fuel consumption. In Europe and in Finland the consumption of fuel and the environment issues are more important (or that's how I'd like to think) than how big your car is. Of course the finnish people are not all that perfect and we have wealthy people also who prefer to have bigger and expensive cars.

I'd like to quote one of our former president's wife on an toplevel meating that was taking place in Finland (or was it in Moscow). Situation was that the presidents of US, former Soviet Union and Finland were in a meeting and the same time the wives were in a meeting of their own. Anyways the other wives were complaining to each other of their husbands work and how that might affect their marridge and all that stuff. Then they asked that the wife of the finnish president if she would give her insight and opinnion of her situation. She just said that "small country, small worries" But that's how it goes I think...

My opinnion that's all...

[Caelius]

Anyone, and I mean anyone who tries to claim that the American Dream is dead will have to prove to me that they actually know what the American Dream is and what it stands for before they gain even a hint of credibility in my eyes. As it always has been, the American Dream has changed as America has changed, there are several historical models to it and all the way up to the present there have always been multiples methods of either achieving it, or maintaining it for most Americans. If there was ever one concrete difference between Americans as opposed to non-Americans (especially Europeans) it's been firmly rooted in the concepts and beliefs of the American Dream. It's probably one of the essential driving factors for why hundreds of millions of people began to immigrate to the US towards the latter part of the 19th century all the way to today in search of a better life.

If the American Dream was dead then why did over 950,000 people legally become US citizens last year alone? I could bring up other examples but I believe this one is by far the most striking.

Could someone state what exactly is the American Dream in the third millenium? Because I dont think it is a dishwasher and a T-bird anymore. Or a college admission.

Honestly speaking I don't think a single general definition of the American Dream in the 21st Century can be given because American society is at such a high state of flux, and thus there would be many perspectives/beliefs on what the "American Dream" means and stands for most Americans. If you want to understand it better though i'd recommend first looking at it's history and background (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_American_Dream), as well as a BBC article that was done fairly recently on the American Dream as it exists now.

[Erik]

Anyone, and I mean anyone who tries to claim that the American Dream is dead will have to prove to me that they actually know what the American Dream is and what it stands for before they gain even a hint of credibility in my eyes.

Can anybody know what the American dream is, if it is changing all the time?

If the American Dream was dead then why did over 950,000 people legally become US citizens last year alone? I could bring up other examples but I believe this one is by far the most striking.

The thing is: this isn't unique to America.
Why is it called the American dream, if it can be applied to all industrialized nations?
I'm not denying people CAN migrate to America and become rich, but there are countries where this is much easier.
Why isn't it called the "Finnish dream", for example?

[MadKow]

The dream may be alive but is just that, a dream. As i understand it, it is based on the idea of social mobility. That one still exists, perhaps.

But the fact is the gap between rich and poor is increasing. This does not bode well for dreamers.

Here is an example of what went on in New York in recent years:
http://www.counterpunch.com/adler10152005.html

And here is from the same site a very interesting article on inequality.
http://www.counterpunch.com/vidal10122005.html

[Aaron88]

The thing is: this isn't unique to America.
Why is it called the American dream, if it can be applied to all industrialized nations?
I'm not denying people CAN migrate to America and become rich, but there are countries where this is much easier.
Why isn't it called the "Finnish dream", for example?

There is a reason it is called the "American" dream, and not the Finnish, Brittish, or Canadian Dream. It is because we don't have a dream, and you know why? We are awake.

But I guess it's called the "American" dream, because they called it that first, and it's something they used to promote heavily.

[Vincenzo Morello]

American Dream what a load of rubbish.