Merits of larger countries?

[removeduser_4536284751384]

What advantage does a large federal country like the USA have over all the states being independent?

[Armenum]

What advantage does a large federal country like the USA have over all the states being independent?

You mean the US states being independent? During the founding of US, the US states were very much independent almost like their own countries (similar to EU), and this is one of reason the first US constitution fell. So, what was needed was more federal power to bring states closer each other. Over time, US has become more and more federal government centred.

So the states being separate is an integral part of US (after all it's United States) the whole country is based on the fact of separate states each with their governments.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

You mean the US states being independent? During the founding of US, the US states were very much independent almost like their own countries (similar to EU), and this is one of reason the first US constitution fell. So, what was needed was more federal power to bring states closer each other. Over time, US has become more and more federal government centred.

So the states being separate is an integral part of US (after all it's United States) the whole country is based on the fact of separate states each with their governments.

yes but I am specifically asking

what benefits does the federal government bring to the states?

[Poach]

They wouldn't be so powerful if they were seperate.

It gives:

-A pooled economy, allowing things like the current banking crisis to be tackled more effectively and meaning the poorer states can be supported by the richer ones, raising living standards.
-A centered government, allowing action rather than bickering amongst the states
-A federal armed forces, which for a nation the size of the US means a massive armed forces that no one would really like to be on the receiving end of.
-A unified voice in the world, ensuring one's opinions and foreign policies are more successful. The individual states, being concentrated in the same area, would have a very similar set of policies to the extra-American world anyway.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

They wouldn't be so powerful if they were seperate.

It gives:

-A pooled economy, allowing things like the current banking crisis to be tackled more effectively and meaning the poorer states can be supported by the richer ones, raising living standards.
-A centered government, allowing action rather than bickering amongst the states
-A federal armed forces, which for a nation the size of the US means a massive armed forces that no one would really like to be on the receiving end of.
-A unified voice in the world, ensuring one's opinions and foreign policies are more successful. The individual states, being concentrated in the same area, would have a very similar set of policies to the extra-American world anyway.

yet people are against any sort of EU

sorry I just noticed that many people who are anti-EU think the US federal government benefits the states a lot.

sure there are a lot of things that should change about the EU, but an EU is absolutely necessary.

[Gelgoog]

yet people are against any sort of EU

sorry I just noticed that many people who are anti-EU think the US federal government benefits the states a lot.

sure there are a lot of things that should change about the EU, but an EU is absolutely necessary.

The US is not made up of states with distinctly separate identities cultures and languages. The US was/is a melting pot, the EU is not. It would be nearly impossible for a strong EU federal government to represent all the needs and demands of the various countries under it.

The EU is better off operating like the early United State's Articles of confederation, instead of having a strong federal government.

[Lance-Corporal Jones]

yet people are against any sort of EU

Comparing the US to the EU is just stupid, sorry. It's apples and oranges. You might as well argue that Yugoslavia was a great idea for that matter.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

yet people are against any sort of EU

sorry I just noticed that many people who are anti-EU think the US federal government benefits the states a lot.

sure there are a lot of things that should change about the EU, but an EU is absolutely necessary.

The federal government is good in theory but in practice, its a huge, bloated POS system. Its better than being independent, however, but not ideal by any means. A much leaner, meaner fed. gov. would be far better, with states having more control, like they used to. The EU is basically liked an even more screwed up federal government that is being created by bureaucracy from the top down, that is why people don't like it. Plus, you guys have been independent for a long time and people don't like change.

[Justice and Mercy]

The federal government is good in theory but in practice,

I hate it when people say that.

If it's good in theory it's going to be good in practice. If it's bad in practice that means it was bad in theory.

Any problems with the EU aren't that it's an attempt at centralizing several countries, simply the manner in which it's doing so.

Which is to say, typical cluster leftist (no clearly stated powers, just slowly-expanding ones) fashion.

Want a good EU? Clearly reduce it to a few primary functions via a constitution, probably similar to those enumerated to the US Federal Government in our Constitution, which is to say: Defense, the assurance of free trade across state (in this case, national) lines, and the printing of a currency.

[Richard]

yet people are against any sort of EU

sorry I just noticed that many people who are anti-EU think the US federal government benefits the states a lot.

sure there are a lot of things that should change about the EU, but an EU is absolutely necessary.

Why is it? Countries like New Zealand get along just fine while maintaining total sovereignty over all aspects of their existance. Imagine if the EU was federalised like the US, the rich countries would subsidise the poor (it happens even now albeit on a small scale) at the expense of quality of life for the rich. If Swedes are happy to live more like Bulgarians just so Bulgarians can live more like Swedes, then so be it.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

the rich countries would subsidise the poor (it happens even now albeit on a small scale) at the expense of quality of life for the rich.

lets say there was no EU, would you protest at the government taking your money and developing run down areas of your own country?

you see argument

one of the main reasons I am for an Eu is to help countris develop

[Vermelho_Steele]

lets say there was no EU, would you protest at the government taking your money and developing run down areas of your own country?

you see argument

one of the main reasons I am for an Eu is to help countris develop

I've always believed that a country's first and foremost responsibility was to it's people, worry about other nations when our own has it's problems solved. You can't compare helping people in your country to country A propping up country B. It's like comparing the EU to the USA.

@Justice and Mercy: Yes, I don't like the spaghetti bowl of laws we have, it's all too complicated and I'm sure not that even Lawyers and Judges get it.

And as such, the EU isn't a good idea in it's present form. Major reform or complete collpase is what is required for the EU.

[Richard]

lets say there was no EU, would you protest at the government taking your money and developing run down areas of your own country?

you see argument

one of the main reasons I am for an Eu is to help countris develop

No, because it'd still be my country, with my culture/people I feel more of a connection with. If however they suddenly started spending half my taxes so Fijians could all have broadband, medical schools and high-speed rail, then yeah, I'd be pissed off.

[Poach]

I too support an EU, by that same token I also agree that the current EU has issues that must be resolved if we're to ever integrate further.

[garudamon11]

eventhough im not european i dont think a european union is a good idea , the americans had the same culture , language , religion and everything ( except for territories annexed from spain and mexico ) before uniting , while europeans vary in alot of things , you can take austria-hungary as an example

[removeduser_4536284751384]

eventhough im not european i dont think a european union is a good idea , the americans had the same culture , language , religion and everything ( except for territories annexed from spain and mexico ) before uniting , while europeans vary in alot of things , you can take austria-hungary as an example

if you think people from Alabama, Vermont and California are more similar than people from Ireland, Spain and Poland then you should spend a while in the States.

[Lance-Corporal Jones]

if you think people from Alabama, Vermont and California are more similar than people from Ireland, Spain and Poland then you should spend a while in the States.

In fact, they are. For one, they can understand each other. And we're just scratching the surface here. You can give it a shot, but allow me to warn you that any attempt to make a valid comparison between the USA and Europe will necessarily fail. The facts are against you here.

There would be civil war in Greece were it not for the EU.

On the contrary. If Greece hadn't been in the euro it probably wouldn't be in this situation in the first place; and, furthermore, if it could devalue, there wouldn't be the riots there are now.

The question here is not to save Greece; it is to save the Euro, that the Greeks are being sacrificed.

[Poach]

The European Union should start off loose and get closer as time goes on. Though currently it's pretty much just a way for MEPs to get rich and the Court of Human Rights to meddle in member nations' justice systems.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

ok well lets list the things the EU currently does that it shouldn't do.

obviously making ridiculous laws about the size limits of bananas permitted in the union is one.

[Vermelho_Steele]

What is the point of the EU exactly? I really can't think of one unless creating a new layer of government, new laws/regulations and an excuse for Brussels to rule the entire continent...

Again, the USA and the EU aren't the same, not by a long shot. Your better of comparing the EU to ASEAN or the USA to Russia.