Dagor Ennor (aka PCP) ~ M2TW & TATW Re-Imagined ~ 31 Factions + 32 Rebel Factions ~ MAXED Buildings/Units/Regions ~ Interact with ALL the indigenous peoples of Middle-Earth... and then terminate them with extreme prejudice.

[ElvenKind]

KK thanks. So i tried the spiders now, they are working fine, one crash but it appeared only once. But i noticed that on one battlefield there were huge letters saying sunrise foggy, i tried to make a screenshot but it did not work out, so sorry no screeny.

Who are u calling KK here? KK stands for King Kong, the creator of TATW series. Find program Fraps, great for taking screenshots. Huge letters on battlefield? That`s new to me. Alreadyded, I could start a fresh campaign with one of the creature factions and test them and give fedback, will see how to manage with work and real life, summer is here and lot of work for me. More money though.

[Rhagai]

KK stands for OK OK^^

[ElvenKind]

KK stands for OK OK^^

Be sure next time to write that OK

[alreadyded]

But i noticed that on one battlefield there were huge letters saying sunrise foggy, i tried to make a screenshot but it did not work out, so sorry no screeny.

That is from someone else's submod that is used. I will get it fixed, thanks for reporting it.

[alreadyded]

But i noticed that on one battlefield there were huge letters saying sunrise foggy, i tried to make a screenshot but it did not work out, so sorry no screeny.

That is from someone else's submod that is used. I will get it fixed, thanks for reporting it.


Edit: I checked on the rams and giving less attack is easy so I will do that and give them less health. That way one ram may not be enough to get the gates open, especially not in Minas Tirith. I will probably do the same to other siege equipment as well which will hopefully make siege battles a little more realistic and a little less silly. I personally cannot stand siege battles in M2TW.

[ElvenKind]

Alreadyded, if u test my Silvan saved campaign 100+ turns, check out the diplomacy between factions, and who is at war with whom. That is without that Optional Update for FFA and sandbox campaigns.

[Chainsaw Schmalz]

Ive been dabbling in this mod a little bit myself after finishing a vanilla Harad campaign - started with the Brood of Ancalagon.

Thus far it has been alternately awesome and immensely frustrating playing an entire faction of fire breathing, naphtha drenched Mumakil. I have lost no less than three generals to freak gasoline fight accidents, and if I don't pay VERY close attention my units fry themselves when enemies get to melee range. I'm sort of fine with it if one unit shoots an an enemy in melee with a different unit of mine and roasting occurs, but it bugs me when I don't turn off fire at will fast enough and a single unit will kill over half its own members with 'friendly' fire.

Then there's the pathfinding problems inherent to being giant dragons. For every time I manage to do something awesome like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I have another battle in which my dragons get stuck on one another, a tree, a slightly narrow passage, or something I can't see and just sit there twitching while they die. Turning especially seems difficult compared to mumaks, I suspect because the dragons are longer nose to tail. I've also noticed that, like mumakil, dragons have trouble finishing off the last 5-20 guys in a unit as they can't get close enough together to hit the tiny men.

Don't even get me started on sieges with troops that can't fit through the gate and cant use rams, ladders, or towers. I suppose I could hire humanoid mercenaries to do that for me, but in most cases I'd rather wait out the garrison. Siege defense, however, is highly irritating. Can't move inside, can't get outside.

I've also played a few turns with the Ered Luin dwarves, and I'm slightly baffled as to how I should fight drakes/other wild creatures without taking massive casualties. The tactics I use versus other man-sized opponents don't seem to work so well.

In general I'm impressed and intrigued - excellent work, and I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes in the future

[Kellenpure]

I've been doing Gundabad and early on decided my chief wanted to be known as the Dragonslayer. Best thing I have found is build plenty of ballistas and catapults and hammer them. Particularly if you attack dragons in a settlement in close quarters you can slam them with catapults and reduce their numbers to manageable. In the outdoors it's sketchy and you have to get some lucky shots before they close on you, but I included some trolls to take them on and balance things a bit. In any event, it's risky, as it should be!

[Kellenpure]

OK I'm desperate here! Trying to do my Gundabad campaign (gave up on Balcoth) and getting CTDs regularly, both during other faction moves and during battles. Attached is the latest. Really don't know what to do now but start yet another campaign. I really don't think it's a heating issue because it happens it all different times.

[alreadyded]

Thanks for the fast reply. I tested it a few times with me attacking before the rebels breaking the siege, lifting the siege and attacking directly and letting them attack me. Every time it crashes. So i quick resolved and moved to the next rebel settlement, same issue. So i testet a few custom battles and dragons against dragons crashed while other factions with human units worked out fine.


Here is the savegame

I forgot to include the second texture for the Great Cold Drakes with Patch 1 (I assumed it was a missing texture file), so it was causing the CTD. Here is the Quickfix, install it and it should work fine. Everyone else install this as well, it will fix the crashes that occur from using/fighting Great Cold Drakes.

OK I'm desperate here! Trying to do my Gundabad campaign (gave up on Balcoth) and getting CTDs regularly, both during other faction moves and during battles. Attached is the latest. Really don't know what to do now but start yet another campaign. I really don't think it's a heating issue because it happens it all different times.

From your log it is the battle_wait timers that are causing the crash. These specific timers are not causing problems for other people, though one other specific timer is causing a random crash for everyone. I don't why these specific timers are effecting you so much when they don't effect anyone else. Processing speed I am guessing. G5 added the timers to tell the BAI to wait for your processor to work out the script, some are too long though and cause the game to CTD on there own.

In short those timers need to be redone or removed, which removing will probably cause a CTD. Open up the TA_NoCreatures script and Replace All "battle_wait 30" with "battle_wait 0.5" in notepad. I am not sure if it will help but you can test it for me. I tried a bunch of battles as Gundabad and I got no crashes, same with the Balchoth, so I can't replicate the CTD you are having.

Ive been dabbling in this mod a little bit myself after finishing a vanilla Harad campaign - started with the Brood of Ancalagon.

Thus far it has been alternately awesome and immensely frustrating playing an entire faction of fire breathing, naphtha drenched Mumakil. I have lost no less than three generals to freak gasoline fight accidents, and if I don't pay VERY close attention my units fry themselves when enemies get to melee range. I'm sort of fine with it if one unit shoots an an enemy in melee with a different unit of mine and roasting occurs, but it bugs me when I don't turn off fire at will fast enough and a single unit will kill over half its own members with 'friendly' fire.

Then there's the pathfinding problems inherent to being giant dragons. For every time I manage to do something awesome like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I have another battle in which my dragons get stuck on one another, a tree, a slightly narrow passage, or something I can't see and just sit there twitching while they die. Turning especially seems difficult compared to mumaks, I suspect because the dragons are longer nose to tail. I've also noticed that, like mumakil, dragons have trouble finishing off the last 5-20 guys in a unit as they can't get close enough together to hit the tiny men.

Don't even get me started on sieges with troops that can't fit through the gate and cant use rams, ladders, or towers. I suppose I could hire humanoid mercenaries to do that for me, but in most cases I'd rather wait out the garrison. Siege defense, however, is highly irritating. Can't move inside, can't get outside.

I've also played a few turns with the Ered Luin dwarves, and I'm slightly baffled as to how I should fight drakes/other wild creatures without taking massive casualties. The tactics I use versus other man-sized opponents don't seem to work so well.

In general I'm impressed and intrigued - excellent work, and I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes in the future

If you use a looser formation with the fire drakes they don't burn each other so much. But if they don't burn each other than you don't have to pay attention, then it is too easy since the units are so overpowered. I never made the drakes to fight in settlements, never really cared since I don't play siege battles in M2TW. I added the humanoid thralls/mercs and lesser drakes as mercs to take care of this aspect. I can add in a thrall/merc catapult unit, maybe that would help with the not fitting through the gates problem? It may be possible to allow the drakes, the larger ones only, to attack the walls themselves. Though they will only do low damage so you will need a lot or really big ones. I will look into it but realistically waiting them out is what would happen in a siege so that is kinda what you are supposed to do. As for siege defense, why would you allow that to happen? These creatures are the ultimate cavalry so you should always use them in open battles whenever possible.

Killing them is a bit trickier but once you figure out a few ways they are actually pretty easy to kill. Using one cheap unit to tangle them up while the rest of your force surrounds and flanks is always good but there are better ways such as luring them in little by little instead of fighting their whole force at once. Getting them in a cross fire using ballistas works as well. Basically just avoid going toe to toe with them and ABC (Always Be Charging). Putting your units in loose formation and/or keeping your army spread out is good to. Don't bunch up or they will just hurt/kill more of your troops with each attack. It depends on the drakes though, green drakes for example are fast and have high charge but weak melee so charging them head on so they don't keep flanking you is better.

Keep in mind that you shouldn't be fighting spiders or drakes with crappy armies, these units are tough and require tough armies with a decent amount of tier 2 units at least (even with Dwarves and Elves, but not as much). It is best to avoid those places and go for easier targets in the beginning, as you would if you really were in Middle-Earth. When I play as the Beornings (one of my favs I guess) I avoid Mirkwood at all costs (which I love having to do) because trying to capture it in the beginning will break me even if I win. Which means game over 20 turns later usually. Giant lizards with scale armor and giant spiders with exoskeleton armor should be hard to kill though, I know I would run away and I don't run away from people trying to kill me. Wolves, Wargs, and Giant Bats on the other hand only have fur armor and are not so unfamiliar and frightening to humans, so tier 1 units can take them out with enough numbers. Some of the drakes might need a bit of balancing as well. I did the best I could on my own but I haven't gotten any feedback about it.

I have never seen any of the units get stuck, was this in an open battle or a siege?

Alreadyded, if u test my Silvan saved campaign 100+ turns, check out the diplomacy between factions, and who is at war with whom. That is without that Optional Update for FFA and sandbox campaigns.

Ya I figured that out by looking around in game, got some crazy stuff going on. As for the creature testing, no need. Just do what you want and let me know if you find any bugs. Are the Dwarves of Ered Luin and the Avari Elves usually overpowered or underpowered in your campaigns?

[Kellenpure]

From your log it is the battle_wait timers that are causing the crash. These specific timers are not causing problems for other people, though one other specific timer is causing a random crash for everyone. I don't why these specific timers are effecting you so much when they don't effect anyone else. Processing speed I am guessing. G5 added the timers to tell the BAI to wait for your processor to work out the script, some are too long though and cause the game to CTD on there own.

In short those timers need to be redone or removed, which removing will probably cause a CTD. Open up the TA_NoCreatures script and Replace All "battle_wait 30" with "battle_wait 0.5" in notepad. I am not sure if it will help but you can test it for me. I tried a bunch of battles as Gundabad and I got no crashes, same with the Balchoth, so I can't replicate the CTD you are having.

I tested and it worked for the Gundabad, one battle so far at least. I will try with Balcoth too. Sounds like it is some computer issue--I play on a Dell laptop. I want to put it on my desktop PC but can no longer download the copy of MTW I bought on Gamespy--they are a total rip off by the way. And I'm curious Alreadyded--you mentioned never doing siege battles, do you just autorun siege battles? Or wait them out?

[alreadyded]

Keep me posted.

I fight village level siege battles, those are fun. I don't like M2TW's idea of siege warfare on walls though so I usually just siege with an equal force so they sally out the next turn. This makes for more challenging battles since sieges are so easy to win whether attacking or defending. I will be tweaking the sieges eventually though so maybe they will be more realistic, challenging, and fun instead of silly, easy, and boring. Wall sieges are probably the main reason I don't play this game much since it is a siege fest most of the time. Hugely important aspect of the game and they crapped all over it.

So far I am thinking;

Rams - less speed, less hitpoints, less attack (gates will last much longer), less build cost.

Ladders - less speed, less build cost.

Siege Towers - less speed, less hit points, less build cost.

I am basically going for a "defender can actually destroy them but attacker has more of them" with the siege equipment. That way you actually have to target weak points and focus your attack, most importantly you may have to make more than one attempt at taking the walls (or even winning the siege) if the walls are well defended. On defense you will have to man the walls and not just the gatehouse since the gates will not be the first to go, which means the AI will not just drop everything and pour in through the gate. This sounds better than just moving your siege equipment to the closest spot to attack or waiting for the AI to knock your gate down right away and simply defending that.

[ElvenKind]

Dwarves of Ered Luin do just fine, this is the first campaign they act different, and have war with High Elves( HE started it) and with Eriador( Dwarves of EL started it). My spy was looking around and saw some equal fighting between HE and DoEL. Avari Elves pass unnoticed, until war with Orocarni Dwarves, they hammer eachother every time. My capital on low level taxes got latest wall upgrade around 95 turn, Beornings came to claim it with full stack army, lot of Polleaxes and Forrest guards( EDIT: I meant Woodland Guards), but managed to defeat the attackers during siege of Thandruil's Halls. Quickfix will be installed, I'll see about continuing with making unit info card pictures, real life kicks ass .

[Kellenpure]

Keep me posted.

I fight village level siege battles, those are fun. I don't like M2TW's idea of siege warfare on walls though so I usually just siege with an equal force so they sally out the next turn. This makes for more challenging battles since sieges are so easy to win whether attacking or defending. I will be tweaking the sieges eventually though so maybe they will be more realistic, challenging, and fun instead of silly, easy, and boring. Wall sieges are probably the main reason I don't play this game much since it is a siege fest most of the time. Hugely important aspect of the game and they crapped all over it.

So far I am thinking;

Rams - less speed, less hitpoints, less attack (gates will last much longer), less build cost.

Ladders - less speed, less build cost.

Siege Towers - less speed, less hit points, less build cost.

I am basically going for a "defender can actually destroy them but attacker has more of them" with the siege equipment. That way you actually have to target weak points and focus your attack, most importantly you may have to make more than one attempt at taking the walls (or even winning the siege) if the walls are well defended. On defense you will have to man the walls and not just the gatehouse since the gates will not be the first to go, which means the AI will not just drop everything and pour in through the gate. This sounds better than just moving your siege equipment to the closest spot to attack or waiting for the AI to knock your gate down right away and simply defending that.

Totally agree--I'm at the point I can win wall sieges pretty easily. If outnumbered, the AI flees to the city/castle square, which is pretty lame because I can just focus catapult attacks there and destroy en masse. Winning a castle/walled city should be very costly for the attacker, so those equipment adjustments should help, particularly the gates which are a joke. I usually just shoot them open with a ballista and never even have to get near. I might go to your technique, though it can be costly to wait them out when they arrive with stacks of reinforcements.

[Kellenpure]

Gundabad orcs continue to terrorize western Middle Earth--two more battles with no CTDs. Alreadyded you're a lifesafer! We'll see if the fix holds. The diplomacy has been interesting--Dunland declared war on Mordor, making me have to choose one of them (I choose the former since they're on my border and great relations--Dark Lord will be pissed!). Then Dunland called a truce with High Elves. Just never know what's up around Middle Earth! One note, I'm finding that no matter how carefully I groom orc governors, or what buildings I have, they always seem to fall into bad traits like gambling, drinking, poor with taxes, etc. I suppose that is realistic! Best just send them all into battle and let the cities rule themselves.

[ElvenKind]

Gundabad orcs continue to terrorize western Middle Earth--two more battles with no CTDs. Alreadyded you're a lifesafer! We'll see if the fix holds. The diplomacy has been interesting--Dunland declared war on Mordor, making me have to choose one of them (I choose the former since they're on my border and great relations--Dark Lord will be pissed!). Then Dunland called a truce with High Elves. Just never know what's up around Middle Earth! One note, I'm finding that no matter how carefully I groom orc governors, or what buildings I have, they always seem to fall into bad traits like gambling, drinking, poor with taxes, etc. I suppose that is realistic! Best just send them all into battle and let the cities rule themselves.

Same kind of diplomatic LOVE in my campaign, lets see how do the things develop with that Beta 09 Optional Update. When u start a new campaign, do you check the option Manage all Settlements? I use it, and only my members with traits for development and similar stuff stay in the cities, others fight or set watchtowers around. But, Orcs stink in governing, at least I think that way. Never played with them, yet.

[Reverend Green]

I tried postings once before, but my phone doesn't seem to cooperate so will have to see if this works. fortunately it was mainly to mention the "foggy morning" or whatever it was written in the sky.
was also going to say that when playing as gondor in the sandbox campaign all the generals for the corsair bandits that start in your territory are invisible/no models.

I've now started a new campaign as dale because gondor was feeling too easy on the difficulty I chose (h-h). this is also in the sandbox if makes any difference, the balchoth capital, uldonavan, (fortress level) has the black gate strategy map model.

in case I'm sounding too negative, these are all of course very minor things and easily outweighed by adding some much needed variety to the factions. thank you for this pretty impressive submod, good work

[Rhagai]

Thanks for the fix.
I played with the spiders a bit and have a few suggestions/comments.
My biggest problem right now is that I can't built diplomats. I don't know if it is a bug or if creature factions can not built them at all but I got big problems because of that cause every neighbor is at war with me.
The young spiders are a waste of money, so I have a army consisting of 7 generals defending my lands, but expanding is not really possible with harad, variags and rhun pressing on the borders.
In a siege battle I have to rely on mercenaries, because spiders can not use siege weapons. So I have to spend money for a unit I don't use to attack the city, that sucks. I don't know if it is possible but it would be awesome if the spiders could climb the walls.
And some more descriptions on the buildings would be cool.
So that's it for the moment

[ElvenKind]

This is the diplomatic result in my last Silvan campaign, Third Age Free For All custom one, without that Beta 09 Optional Update.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Gondor and Rohan at war:




Isengard doesn`t expand at all, but stacks armies, and also there is a plague in Isengard:



And has anyone seen this before, that a site of a Famous battle belongs to THE REBELS:

[Kellenpure]

Same kind of diplomatic LOVE in my campaign, lets see how do the things develop with that Beta 09 Optional Update. When u start a new campaign, do you check the option Manage all Settlements? I use it, and only my members with traits for development and similar stuff stay in the cities, others fight or set watchtowers around. But, Orcs stink in governing, at least I think that way. Never played with them, yet.

You let the computer handle the settlements eh? I've found that doesn't work very well, the few times I dabbled in it. They spent money on unnecessary stuff and taxed too much to point that there were rebellions. I kind of like that aspect anyway, deciding what to build.