Diplomatic Nonsense

[GGregD]

I'm playing a campaign as the British, it's about 1770. The U.S. is limited to New England, New York and the Carolinas, I have most of the rest of North America. They revolted and became independent while I was trying to get the 13 colonies on my side and I haven't bothered them. They have no allies and their only enemy is the Pirates.

I got a diplomacy pop up out of nowhere that has them demanding military access for 20 turns and 8000 gold. In return I get military access for 5 turns. On top of that, they're hostile to me now.

I could easily stomp them if I had to, that must be obvious. I'm not sure what they want military access for, unless it's just to get troops from their northern territories to their southern one, but there are boats for that. The one native held territory they might want to conquer is right next to one of theirs, so they don't need to cross mine.

Is this the AI trying to goad me into starting a war by being insolent? I'm busy in Europe, I don't want to start a 2 front war.

[eXistenZ]

No the AI is just plain stupid when it comes to diplomacy. it's a constant in the Total War series. In Medievall II, when you had an alliance with somebody, it actually ment: "backstab me"

You will see many stupid offers, but the backstabbing has gone down in compare to other titles

[HomelessDepot]

The AI places huge importance on military access. I make it a point to give it to every one of my allies, and it goes a long way towards protecting my back. I'm convinced it has something to do with how it sees the border as a potential obstacle. I play mostly on Normal, later difficulties are, unsurprisingly, more difficult - and unless I'm mistaken part of how they do that is influencing the AI to be more belligerent.

-HD

[P|A|ntZ]

Yeah the AI isn't very clever at figuring out the best way to get to where it wants when water or non-access lands are involved.

Currently as France I'm allied with Spain (of course) and we are both at war with UP. There is no overland route for Spain to get directly to Holland now that they've lost Flanders, so they have 4 stacks just going back and forth across France every turn, doing the campaign map version of a chicken dance. Clearly the logic that defines when and how the AI uses naval transport for armies is mysterious at best.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the USA AI in your situation really is trying to get across your lands that are dividing their holdings.

[Mr. Fruitcake]

I understand it is hugely difficult to code AI and thus diplomacy but it can get a bit anoying when I get asked for the 21ste time if I would like to cede a certain region and 8000 gold for a few turns of military access

[Flavius Silvanus]

Stupid like Hitler declaring war on the USA without the Japanese declaring war on USSR?

The thing about the CAI in all TW games is that it is different every time. Some campaigns it is very very smart. In others it is very very stupid. Usually it is a little of both which I have always thought realistic.

[HomelessDepot]

Hah, I'm not sure I'd use the term 'realistic,' but it certainly keeps things interesting.

And you're absolutely right that it varies significantly from game to game. Sometimes (very seldom, but sometimes) I'm even surprised by the campaign AI in a good way, which is fun. Bavaria just joined the Austrian coalition and declared war on my fledgling Prussian Empire, for example, but then turned around and asked for a ceasefire the next turn; they kept their alliance with Austria AND stayed out a global conflict - a perfectly believable diplomatic maneuver undertaken by a tiny nation trying to survive the political tides of European conflict. I'm not sure it's happening on purpose though .

-HD

[Shabby_Ronin]

I still remember forever ago playing Shogun and the Mori offered an alliance, I accepted and the next turn they pointlessly attacked me.

[Darkpriest667]

My favorite about this ai is it makes no logical counter offer


I offer said territory for another said territory


AI counter offer... we will give you such and such technology (1) and you give us 2 territories


WTF .. a tech for a territory they are loony

[eXistenZ]

My favorite about this ai is it makes no logical counter offer


I offer said territory for another said territory


AI counter offer... we will give you such and such technology (1) and you give us 2 territories


WTF .. a tech for a territory they are loony

Yeah that anoyss me the most. I ofeer a tech for 1000, their counter offer: military alliance, give a region and pay us. Goddamnit, that's not even close to what i want

[Space Wolves]

Its the AI. The tantrum of a little child. What did you expect, a competent AI IN EMPIRES? NO WAI

[War&Politics]

Military access is a huge flaw in the AI. Essentially if you give them access they will love you for it, and the odds of being attacked by the AI goes *way* down. It's practically an exploit- don't want to go to war? Give them access! On a positive note, the more I play ETW the more I figure out the twisted logic behind their actions. I've *finally* figured out how to reliably convince the AI to become your protectorates, but it's damn tricky. Tell me are there any mods out there that make the campaign AI better?

I also have a problem with the BAI. As long as I play defensive I have almost no chance of losing a battle. And as long as I have artillery in my army I always play defensive, even when I'm attacking!

[Chyeaaaa111]

You think its bad now, you should've seen it before the game was all patched up. The AI used to REALLY love military access on a whole nother level.

The very first turn of the game, you could offer military access for a procterateship to every single region faction in the game and they would ALL ACCEPT!!!

[Ahlerich]

i played a DM campaign and yesterday started a vanilla campaign again and i can tell you campaign ai definately is better in DM BAI i am not sure about since 1.6

[Darkpriest667]

i played a DM campaign and yesterday started a vanilla campaign again and i can tell you campaign ai definately is better in DM BAI i am not sure about since 1.6

the CAI is.. the DAI is not... the DAI does the same thing to me during negotiations.. not even darth could fix that screw up

[English Total War Gamer]

The Al is stupid, as a Very Friendly country wont even sign a trade agreement with me or a alliance. I even offered 4000 Gold and they still didnt sign a trade agreement!

[magman]

The AI is like an insane person: it has logic, but not any that has any bearing on reality. They will jump on an easy target, even if that means certain defeat (courland >cough<). They also seem to have no understanding of relative military strength.

[Ahlerich]

diplomacy still is the best of all tw games though. rome total war you could have trade and alliances with anybody but as soon as they were at your border they would attack
in m2tw it was possible to modify alliance strength etc but in the end they would brake any alliance as well to attack

at least in etw one has more options and if not playing very hard campaign it seems as if diplomacy somewhat works. it is possible to built long lasting diplomatic relations and if you are attacked it often can be traced back somewhat to a reason

[♔hammeredalways♔]

Hi Darkpriest667 - come back to the darkside, try 6.0 just released, we have made a number of CAI improvements and while we cannot overcome the hardcoded issues it is no longer like trying to reason with a child any longer
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=341088

[Darkpriest667]

Hi Darkpriest667 - come back to the darkside, try 6.0 just released, we have made a number of CAI improvements and while we cannot overcome the hardcoded issues it is no longer like trying to reason with a child any longer
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=341088

oh dont get me wrong im still using DMUC 5.5 but I cant uninstall it without proper instructions and I cannot seem to find any and im not going to install 6.0 until i can get rid of 5.5 also ive got a brilliant US late campaign going on that still has about 25 turns left and im at war with england and the marathas... and well its basically caused a world war cause everyone was either trading/allied with me or the same with england... So I would really like to finish that campaign since it is a 5.5 campaign and not screw anything up.