How I defend as Gondor - Part 2.

[Jordan1318]

As i had some decent feedback from my first post here in this forum titled;(How i defend as Gondor). I have played out more battles using strategies people have suggested, obviously there is less battles played than defence techniques suggested, but thats mainly because a few of them were almost identicle.

So, lets get started,

First off i recieved a reply saying that the battle looked easy, or rather it didnt look to hard, so to this end, i used the same army, same layout, but against an enemy army almost double the size. The results as you will be able to see, are not directly propotional to my first post but the effect of tiredness in the men, and running out of ammo should be considered.

Note- i am only comparing strategies for early gondor defence, I do not claim to be the best player, or indeed the best tactition, but wish to share different ways you can set up early defence, with a reasonably sized army.

This first battle uses my exact same army from my campaign, against 1008 more orcs.

Note- i play with normal unit size, so this is a substantially larger force than previous.

I dont know why it was snowing. I did set it to sunny, midday, etc. But i think its more the battle map you chose, that determines the weather. (next 2 battles are sunny)

My army.

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Enemy army.

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Fighting in almost exact same positions.

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Using a lot more infantry than last time.

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Dead enemy general

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I did use almost all of my infantry, but didnt use my general ranger unit in this battle, only using the rally horn behind the battle line.

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46-89% - Contine battle

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Result page 1

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Result page 2

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This is the second battle i played, i was advised to put infantry on the walls in the way of siege tower/ladder, and also guarding the gate. Archers also went on the walls.

The forces. - Note that this is again against a full stack army.

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They breach the gate.

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They swarm in

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A lot of my units rout.

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Moved some archers from front wall, to side wall for better angle.

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All of my infantry is routed to the centre, archers now get caught up in the fighting.

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There enemy general dies

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They all run away.

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Only 74% of there army was dead, but with the general gone, they seem to lose all hope, i only had archers left, and they run away.

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My caverly died quite early on, so i couldnt capture many routing enemies.
Battle result 1.

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Battle result 2.

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Third battle i was advised to swap defending with militia to defend with fountain guard, and 2 units of militia behind. Using my normal defence strategy, but as fountain guard as my general, instead of the rangers, as i cant recruit the rangers in early campagin, and as to keep this as relevant as possible to early defence battles.

Here is the setup with the enemy already on its way to me

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Killing the enemy general

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19-52% kills.

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31-82% kills. Battle won.

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Results 1.

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Results 2.

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Conclusions.

Early defence as gondor isnt as hard as it may appear, several strategies of defence have, as just shown, been proven to work. The difficulty will only step it up a level, when multiple full stacks appear, and trolls. Im not going to get into how to deal with trolls, as there is numerous guides about that issue.

The clearest loser, in the 2 and a half

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2 and a half strategies because the one i just swapped out for the fountain guard

strategis shown, by a futher loss of almost 100 men when compared with others is the "guarding the wall, and gate" tactic. Now i admit the arhcers did get about 6% more kills when on the wall, but as soon as your gate is breached, if you only have a few units of militia infantry, then you are not going to hold them back, they will pour in, and demolish your men.

Using the fountain guard method was the clear winner with 100 less losses than my normal tactic, against the same army, but then at the end of this, we must realise the cost of such a unit, and if you can afford it, or indeed use the general fountain guard, if you so wish, then this would be the best method for you.


As i get futher in the campaign i will no doubt once again post more strategies for how to defend as gondor, with higher quality troops, against bigger enemy armies, and in harder battles. If i need to retreat to the bridge tactics i feel i will also make a post with this in there.


Any feedback is welcome, I hope I have achieved my goal of helping at least, 1 person to defend easier in the early stages on the gondor campaign.

I know when I came to this forum I looked through guides to help me, but there wasn't a specific one on how to "defend as Gondor" as i was hoping for.

Making these 2 posts has actually been quite fun, Im not willing to call them actual guides as such, more of a "this is how people do defend" and a "go and have a try yourself".

Thanks.

[Achilla]

Lol ... this is sooo lame!

Fight them in the open, brave Gondorian!



These casualty ratios seriously harm my eyes. It's very painful to look at

PS. Poor Orcs. Nobody pity them?

[Baywatch]

Lol ... this is sooo lame!

Fight them in the open, brave Gondorian!



These casualty ratios seriously harm my eyes. It's very painful to look at

PS. Poor Orcs. Nobody pity them?

Unfortunately the AI is god awful when assaulting a city or castle. Although, regardless of how good or bad the AI is there isn't a whole lot they could do when you're sitting in a position that can't be flanked with a large amount of archers especially in vanilla TATW with its insanely good archers. That's borderline cheating when you're playing against the mentally handicapped AI. So yes, I do pity them.

[jinjo]

all strategies are good but the last one is best imo
strategis shown, by a futher loss of almost 100 men when compared with others is the "guarding the wall, and gate" tactic. Now i admit the arhcers did get about 6% more kills when on the wall, but as soon as your gate is breached, if you only have a few units of militia infantry, then you are not going to hold them back, they will pour in, and demolish your men. - u are right
Jordan1318 i like this screenshots +rep

[Shocked]

all strategies are good but the last one is best imo
strategis shown, by a futher loss of almost 100 men when compared with others is the "guarding the wall, and gate" tactic. Now i admit the arhcers did get about 6% more kills when on the wall, but as soon as your gate is breached, if you only have a few units of militia infantry, then you are not going to hold them back, they will pour in, and demolish your men. - u are right
Jordan1318 i like this screenshots +rep

Not if you back them up with cavalry, cavalry seem to counter the force of orcs rushing in

BTW, I saw a massive mistake in the deployment of troops when defending the gate, you have to place the soldiers right up to the gate, so the orcs are forced to fight in a narrow area, this prevents them from rushing in like in the screenshots above..

[Arágion]

Not if you back them up with cavalry, cavalry seem to counter the force of orcs rushing in

BTW, I saw a massive mistake in the deployment of troops when defending the gate, you have to place the soldiers right up to the gate, so the orcs are forced to fight in a narrow area, this prevents them from rushing in like in the screenshots above..

I agree completely

[jinjo]

Not if you back them up with cavalry, cavalry seem to counter the force of orcs rushing in

BTW, I saw a massive mistake in the deployment of troops when defending the gate, you have to place the soldiers right up to the gate, so the orcs are forced to fight in a narrow area, this prevents them from rushing in like in the screenshots above..

he tried that strategy but the last one has the best results

[Shocked]

he tried that strategy but the last one has the best results

No I saw it, he placed the units too far back from the gate, they need to be right next to it for it to work

edit:

see?

[/SPOILER]

They breach the gate.

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They swarm in

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A lot of my units rout.

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Moved some archers from front wall, to side wall for better angle.

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He could have done much better in his strategy, but I don't know, maybe he is new-ish to the game or something.

[jinjo]

No I saw it, he placed the units too far back from the gate, they need to be right next to it for it to work

edit:

see?



He could have done much better in his strategy, but I don't know, maybe he is new-ish to the game or something.

i agree with u
but i think that strategy won't have better results than the last one that is described here

[Jordan1318]

I guess you didnt see my first post?

I did say if anyone could do this better to post their results as i am interested in the strategies you would use.

I mean, im not trying to start anything at all with you. But hi, this is my 7th post. I at least expect some constructive critisizm.

Lol ... this is sooo lame!

Cheers.



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Ty jinjo

[Achilla]

I guess you didnt see my first post?

I did say if anyone could do this better to post their results as i am interested in the strategies you would use.

I mean, im not trying to start anything at all with you. But hi, this is my 7th post. I at least expect some constructive critisizm.


Cheers.



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Ty jinjo

Well, case in point, it does get boring to slaughter a completely hopeless opponent in siege battles

Get some sense of humour dude

Cheers

[Jordan1318]

Well, case in point, it does get boring to slaughter a completely hopeless opponent in siege battles

Get some sense of humour dude

Cheers

Wow, and there I was thinking i'd spent time and effort making a thread to help people.


Im sorry if you find my thread and battles boring, but I didnt ask you to comment, and I know commenting back to you AGAIN will make this seem like a sarcastic arguement back and for, but i'd just like to say that for someone with over 1600 posts in this forum, and i assume - quite a few hours spent playing the game, that you would know, the start of any gondor campaign, see's you at war, within the first few turns, with mordor, with possibly quite severe consiquences (losing all eastern cities) if you are not an experienced player or are not ready for it.

Now i assume when people need help on an issue, in this case regarding the Gondor campaign, they would probably google a few things, and maybe find this forum, and maybe, just maybe, find a thread that helps them defend against mordor in the opening stages of their campaign.

But what do i know eh? 8 Posts +10reps.. almost 30 replies to my 2 threads.


You cant be seriously trying to cause an arguement when someone is trying to help.

Maybe its because im new. I dont know, and i dont care, if you dont like my threads, please stay off them, because Im only here to help people like other people have helped me.

thanks.

[Jordan1318]

...

[|Sith|Duke_Spartacus]

eehm whats with the double post ^^

oh and btw Jordan, nice guide. I think it will be helpfull to some of the newer players. Just dont expect everyone to fall over and praise you for it. I will give you a rep+ for the effort, cause its obvious you spent alot of time putting together this post. Again, nicely done.

And i think Achilla wasnt really out to ridicule you, I think its just that on the forums the meanings just get a bit, lets call it distorted cause you cant see the meanings behind the words all the time.

Nice post, good effort.

[Maha Moggalana]

Good tactic , I will try it myself , +rep

[Arágion]

About defending the gate:

Don't put your infantry in front of the gate, if you do so, the enemy will break your formations... as seen above. Place them in the rears with few archer units (archers also on the walls).

When the enemy breaches the gate, order your archers to attack them (on the ground), you will have excellent shots (when they have entered the gate)
Then charge with your infantry. (and if you have cavalry, make charge attacks on the enemy, it is a devastating tactic (don't go close cambat with them, if not needed)
Use your infantry to hold the line as you fire on the enemy with your archers (from the walls too)
This is for holding the gate, but what about the walls?

Well, put few units of infantry on the walls, so they can keep them clear of enemies.
Always put your infantry in front of enemy ladders but never in front of their siege tower!
With ladders you can easily and effectively kill enemy soldiers one by one.
But with towers... as the enemy pours on your walls from them, they will push half of your formation from the walls and also overrun your soldiers
So place them so they attack from the rear (again) also if you have enough troops, you can attack from two sides

Well, this works if you have enough soldiers, but it works

[Lord Wiffleby]

I generally place at least three infantry units (as heavy as possible) at the gate house. When the enemy breaches, I wait a a moment, then send those three units to attack the first enemy units through the gate. I then have at least two units flanking the enemy force while boiling oil pours down. I place the rest of my units on the wall to counter enemy ladders and towers. I'm not sure if that's as effective, but you could still try it if you want.

[Påsan]

Hm, wierd. I have a tactic you might try, it works brilliantly for me when defending as gondor.
Okey, you defend a city with a square in the middle, (i.e not a castle or a town) So what i do is place all my units in the middle, I do NOT defend the gate OR the streets. So in deployment, i place all my archers along the furthest edge of the centre square (the edge oppesite to the edge the enemy armies will come trough), along the buildings. Then i place my close combat troops along the right or left side of the square, preferably the one furthest away from where the "enemy street" goes into the square. On the side (in the street behind your archers or close combat troops, i have a quick reaction force preferably general and BG.

Now the point in all this is to maximise the effect of your archers while minimising the time your close combat troops need to stay in combat where they will loose troops. So what happens is this: The Orcs break the gates, and their fastest units funnel into the city, and into the streets. Not opposed, they run through the city and nearing the city, your archers starts shooting (or not, if its a weak unit and you want to conserve arrows) The fast unit will engage your nearest unit in the square, wich are your close combat troops, while getting shot at by archers from the side and back. They take a huge moral hit and will soon run. Now the orc horde comes funneling into the streets, and your archers shoot accuratte, direct fire on the cramped masses in the streets. When the orcs comes into the square, they engage your close combat troops, while getting shot at from the side. If the orcs try to engage your archers, your quick reaction force cut them off. Now the enemy horde cant take such punishment for long, and shuld break, and frighten orcs that still comes into the square, mop opp the routhers with your cavalry, and battle is done ^^
.....................
A --------------|
A --------------ssssssssssssssssssssss
A --------------|
A --------------|
QR,CC,CC,CC

A: Archers
QR: Quick reaction
CC: Close combat
s: Street:

[loony]

one suggestion: sally!

[Caba'drin]

In your attempt at guarding the gate, were your militia at the gate on guard mode?

As others have noted above, I've had a good deal of success with Gondor (and others), particularly with large/huge walls, when placing units much closer to the gate to force the enemy to bottleneck under the boiling oil and arrow slits of the wall's causeway. Ticking the gate defenders into guard mode helps them hold this line and forces the enemy to bunch up, hopefully with more getting torched and shot. Spear/pike units are more useful with this tactic than militia, though only a few are needed and they can be backed up by militia. I'd be curious to see your luck with adapting your gate defense to maximize the benefit of the walls and attempting to keep the enemy from climbing up and wreaking havoc among your archers.

Two examples of what I mean.
==== Wall w/archers
|----| gate
S S S Spear/Pike
M M M Militia

========|--------|============
---------M S ----- S M
----------M S---- S M
-----------M S-- S M
------------M S- S M
---------------S S
------------M M M M

2 units of spears, 3 units of militia

=======|---------|=========
-------M S--------S M
-------M S--------S M
-------M S--------S M
-------M S--------S M
---------S S S S S S
----------M M M M

3 units of each