Light Infantry, and Cav Armies - Lame?

[ElusiveHonor]

So, I've been playing Multiplayer recently, and most of the time I use the preset armies with a few changes.

I like doing this because when an opponent comes at you with a semi-realistic army, the battles are intense, and fun.

I've been having some mixed success with these armies, but I've come across a few players who are using all light infantry, and cavalry armies disregarding artillery altogether. What bothers me about this combination is that CA, in their infinite wisdom, enabled most light infantry to plant stakes at will. They also run faster, and have greater range than normal infantry. Couple this with the fact that most late light infantry uses rifles, battle seems a forgone conclusion.

I don't want to be gamey back, because...whats the point? Not only that, there's really no way of knowing their army setup unless you know the player. My questions are:

Has anyone come across this? How do you beat these armies, while also remaining historical? Should I just host my own games? I really like it when the armies are historically accurate (3-4 units of light infantry, the rest a mix of cav, art, and line infantry), should I just make my own rules? Is this a lame, gamey tactic? Should I just stfu?

[daniu]

all light infantry, and cavalry armies disregarding artillery altogether. [...]
I don't want to be gamey back, because...whats the point? Not only that, there's really no way of knowing their army setup unless you know the player. My questions are:
Has anyone come across this?

Yes, light infantry spam is pretty common; it's been complained about forever in the forums.
It's usually beatable if you don't play grassy flatlands so you have terrain to take cover...
However, hosting a game with rules (as you suggest) is the most common way.

[ElusiveHonor]

Well, that is a little sad. Most games are Grassy Flatlands.

Ah well, thanks for the reply. Looks like I'll be hosting my games from now on.

[TheEschaton]

I would say, however, that there are so many ways to defeat the combo of light infantry and cavalry that the tactic loses its appeal rather quickly.

If you take, for example, a nice combination of 24pnders and lots of cheap line infantry backed up by some fast cavalry, none of the enemy's tactics will be a problem for you.

Where they present cavalry, shoot them to ribbons with shrapnel shot.

Where they present light infantry, bayonet charge them with line.

Where they present distracted cavalry or light infantry without stakes, pin them with the light cavalry.

Remember, you will take heavy casualties on the first few lines to go head-on into rifle fire, but the lines charging in after that will find themselves relatively unharrassed (except by enemy cavalry). So long as you have your cannon supporting the charge and keeping the enemy cavalry at bay, your lines can then continue to press the light infantry cloud. If the light infantry cloud must run from you, then they also can't fire at you, nor can they reload. Continue making them run. Once you have dispersed them and dealt with their cavalry, use what's left of your light cav to run down the enemy light infantry and pin them so that your lines can come into musket or (preferably) bayonet range.

I have seen this tactic used many times with many variations, and it would appear there is little a light-inf heavy player can do against a line-inf heavy player who is persistent.

[daniu]

it would appear there is little a light-inf heavy player can do against a line-inf heavy player who is persistent.

You're right, of course, it's not excessively hard to beat that strategy, but it's still annoying to play against it.
People tend to kite you around with their light infantry so the battle gets drawn out endlessly.

[Claus DeWitz]

It is why tournaments limit the amount of light inf. It's a sad fact for both NTW and ETW.

[ElusiveHonor]

As Danui said, its really annoying to fight as they kite you all over the battlefied. Charge, and they run away. Start firing at them, and they fire back at you but with better accuracy.

Also, some of the better players save their stakes for when your cavalry charges as well, so cavalry's effects are lessened.

I remember a match yesterday when I used the Maharathas against an army of Grenzers, and Hungarian Hussars. It was such a pain because these people are usually campers as well. I don't mind attacking, but it was just ridiculous!

[TheEschaton]

Meh. Patience is a virtue. As for saving the stakes, as long as you keep them on the run they won't be placing those. If you've got some horse artillery left over for the end game the fight against cav and light infantry is decidedly in your favor; with the long-range advantage, you can play the attrition / kiting game much better than they can. I almost always prioritize the destruction of my enemy's cavalry and artillery for this reason. When all that's left are light infantry, the army is very inflexible.

The one exception to this (and I've not tested it enough yet) is an army I've started to run, which basically consists of nothing but double-vetted native american musketeers. These units would seem to pose a serious threat to almost anything you throw at them, especially in such numbers. But I don't think I need to tell anyone that some of the native american units are unbalanced.

[eleftherios]

Indirect firing artillery such as howitzers or mortars can seriously demoralise them if timed in conjuction with your line and light cavalry persuing them. Also round shot is very effective against moving cavalry at long range.