Palestinian state to be declared in 2011 regardless of political discussions?

[6644kp]

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...-year-1.283802

So basically a Palestinians state will be declared by 2011 based on the pre 67 borders if talks fail because the Palestinians are tired of endless talks. However what if Israel does not retreat from the West Bank will it mean immediate war? Surly the palestinians would lose and the status quo would continue although the US and EU have said they will recognize this state when it is declared in 2011 and Turkey and most Arab and Muslim nations will too.

Is the tide finally turning against Israel? How will this work or will we seen another large scale war to liberate the Palestinian state by Turkey and and some Arab states?

[Vermelho_Steele]

If such a state is declared (and it's not something I'd put past the Pales') then Israel will kill what little positive image it has outside the Levant if Tevl Aviv decides to attack. Israel will be caught in a most difficult position for the government will lose external support in attacking, lose internal support from the people by not attacking; the US and the EU's reaction will be cautious, slow and quiet. It should be interesting, but if it happens, I predict blood will be spilt one way of another.

[Tiberios]

I just think that it will not change anything. They will not suddenly be handed over control of the area Israel siezed in 1967 just because they lay claim to it. They will effectively only rule the area they control now and Gaza would probably remain seperate with Hamas in power. Besides I don't think declaring a state and then laying claims to Israeli territory will achieve anything but piss of Israel and hamper the peacetalks.
That's just my opinion.

[6644kp]

I just think that it will not change anything. They will not suddenly be handed over control of the area Israel siezed in 1967 just because they lay claim to it. They will effectively only rule the area they control now and Gaza would probably remain seperate with Hamas in power. Besides I don't think declaring a state and then laying claims to Israeli territory will achieve anything but piss of Israel and hamper the peacetalks.
That's just my opinion.

The peace talks are a joke.

[Tiberios]

The peace talks are a joke.

and if the Palestinians just declare a state and thus lays claim to large parts of Israel, including half of it's capital, I'm certain the peacetalks will remain a joke for decades.

I think the Palestinians deserve a state of their own, I just think that this would be a bad move and will only weaken the peace efforts.

[justicar5]

and if the Palestinians just declare a state and thus lays claim to large parts of Israel, including half of it's capital, I'm certain the peacetalks will remain a joke for decades.

I think the Palestinians deserve a state of their own, I just think that this would be a bad move and will only weaken the peace efforts.

well it would make a change from isreal treating them as a joke they play to keep the US military goods flowing.

[6644kp]

and if the Palestinians just declare a state and thus lays claim to large parts of Israel, including half of it's capital, I'm certain the peacetalks will remain a joke for decades.

I think the Palestinians deserve a state of their own, I just think that this would be a bad move and will only weaken the peace efforts.

No country recognizes those parts to be of Israel not even the US. And I think it's pretty clear by now that the Israelis like the status quo and won't budge unless their hand is forced. This decleration will do just that.

[Каие]

The trouble with this Palestinian State business is the Israelis think they are entitled to rule over the Palestinians for ever. Even the Israelis who accept the Palestinians right to govern themselves, they still feel it is the right of Israel to determine under what conditions. For example Israel demands it retains control of Palestinian air space and waters, and forbids the Palestinians from creating an army.

Palestine will never be a state as a result of peace talks, it will be a puppet autonomous authority. The only way they will achieve their freedom is if, like the Jews and American and various other people previously under colonial rule, they will have to take it. Unless the Israelis have an epiphany, which consequently only seems to happen when the Palestinians kill lots of people for it. They got their PA after the first intifada, and Sharon withdrew from Gaza and the settlements after the second intifada.

I bloody hate war, but everyone else seems to love it. We need UN peacekeepers. This ethnic squabble is even more pathetic than some of the African squabbles. At least the African savages fight over scarce food and water. Jews and Arabs are fighting over invisible lines on the floor and which sides greatx12 granddads were there first, and which one of their Gods, who might not even exist, gave them the more authentic receipt.

[garudamon11]

The peace talks are a joke.

finally someone with a brain
peace talks are a joke , and so is the idea of an independent palestine ( israel will not allow it )

[motiv-8]

If such a state is declared (and it's not something I'd put past the Pales') then Israel will kill what little positive image it has outside the Levant if Tevl Aviv decides to attack. Israel will be caught in a most difficult position for the government will lose external support in attacking, lose internal support from the people by not attacking; the US and the EU's reaction will be cautious, slow and quiet. It should be interesting, but if it happens, I predict blood will be spilt one way of another.

I really don't think Israel is that much into irony so as to attack a newly borrn state in Palestine right after it declares independence.

Isn't there a State of Palestine? They should declare it based on UN partition plan.

The UN partition plan is very outdated and no longer reflects the current demographic realities. Getting the right borders is key here, because it is primarily that issue which would dictate possible tensions between the two states for the forseeable future. For this reason it is best to go along the 1967 border with some one-for-one land swaps to even out the demographics as much as possible. Admittedly even this serves Israel a bit more than the Palestinians, who require more water and resources than they do population, but it's by far the best way.

[PointOfViewGun]

The UN partition plan is very outdated and no longer reflects the current demographic realities. Getting the right borders is key here, because it is primarily that issue which would dictate possible tensions between the two states for the forseeable future. For this reason it is best to go along the 1967 border with some one-for-one land swaps to even out the demographics as much as possible. Admittedly even this serves Israel a bit more than the Palestinians, who require more water and resources than they do population, but it's by far the best way.

It may be outdated but it's a long-term solution. The 1967 borders seems to be a short-term solution to me. At least something between UN partition plan and 1967 borders to reflect the demographic changes but a lot of people has to be moved nevertheless. Though I'm not sure about Israeli demographics as if they include Jews that simply own property in Israel but live somewhere else. In any condition Jerusalem has to be a neutral city state.

On the other hand State of Palestine was already declared in 1988 and have been recognized by over a 100 states.

[roy34543]

It may be outdated but it's a long-term solution. The 1967 borders seems to be a short-term solution to me. At least something between UN partition plan and 1967 borders to reflect the demographic changes but a lot of people has to be moved nevertheless. Though I'm not sure about Israeli demographics as if they include Jews that simply own property in Israel but live somewhere else. In any condition Jerusalem has to be a neutral city state.

On the other hand State of Palestine was already declared in 1988 and have been recognized by over a 100 states.

Yeah, and a good bit of those countries want peace negotiations . How many countries do you see calling the palestinians and telling them to declare a state unilaterally?

and the 1948 borders were crazy, if you think the checkpoints are bad now imagien having to go through palestinian security, israeli security , palestinian security and israeli security just to drive across tel-aviv to jerusalem, and imagine if you wanted to drive back. It may have worked if the palestinians and Israelis were friendly with each other, but theyre certainly not.

[PointOfViewGun]

Yeah, and a good bit of those countries want peace negotiations . How many countries do you see calling the palestinians and telling them to declare a state unilaterally?

and the 1948 borders were crazy, if you think the checkpoints are bad now imagien having to go through palestinian security, israeli security , palestinian security and israeli security just to drive across tel-aviv to jerusalem, and imagine if you wanted to drive back. It may have worked if the palestinians and Israelis were friendly with each other, but theyre certainly not.

Why would they call Palestinians when they already declared their state?

The UN partition plan would only pose a problem for Jews to get to Jerusalem which would be a UN run city. Passing between Jewish-Jewish and Palestinian-Palestinian territories can be done quite easily as there 2 points where the territories of each side gets quite close to each other. On the other hand it wouldn't be too hard to give some lands to the East of Gaze to Palestinians and some lands to the East of Tel Aviv to Israelis. It would give more space for each city to develop better and would create lands of Israelis closer to Jerusalem where they can be connected through a passage.

The fact that UN administration and Peacecorps stationing right there would create much more stability and also would make UN function for the first time. The presence of UN would surely bring stability to region and a chance to end hostilities between the East and the West.

[Armenum]

Glad to see this. But the issue is who in the Palestinians will control the state. Palestinians are rather divided in their political support.

[♔Goodguy1066♔]

I'd love to see them try making Jerusalem their capital! As much as I'm against the settlements in the West Bank, Jerusalem is annexed, it's part of Israel proper!
This ought to be good...

[zznɟ ǝɥʇ]

I'd love to see them try making Jerusalem their capital! As much as I'm against the settlements in the West Bank, Jerusalem is annexed, it's part of Israel proper!
This ought to be good...

...according to no one but the Israelis. and 'this ought to be good' seems like a dick thing to say, seeing as people will be eating lead rather than popcorn

[♔Goodguy1066♔]

...according to no one but the Israelis. and 'this ought to be good' seems like a dick thing to say, seeing as people will be eating lead rather than popcorn

You do realize nothing will come of this and no-one will be eating lead, right? Soon enough the Israelis and the Palestinians will come to their senses and resume the peace-talks. There will be no intifada III, and if the Palestinians will try to declare Israeli-annexed territory as their own, then they're doing it at their own expense.

[Khalid]

You do realize nothing will come of this and no-one will be eating lead, right? Soon enough the Israelis and the Palestinians will come to their senses and resume the peace-talks. There will be no intifada III, and if the Palestinians will try to declare Israeli-annexed territory as their own, then they're doing it at their own expense.

Yeah, considering Israel's record they would probably bomb a school (again) or an Orphanage. Perhaps they would level an entire city, prevent the city's reconstruction by a blockade that prevents importation of essential goods, such as Medicine or Construction Materials and then get upset when an angry inhabitant fires a rocket in frustration or accuse their opposition of not wanting a peace settlement. Oh wait.

[Dave Scarface]

The declaration of this Palestinian state which has never existed before in history, will not put an end to the terrorist attacks against the jews. How sad that the only jewish nation on the face of this planet will never be left in peace from "you know who". Does anybody seriously believe that the jews and arabs will put aside their differences once this has been declared? How naive the western goverments are to think that this will lead to a lasting middle eastern peace agreement.

[♔Goodguy1066♔]

Yeah, considering Israel's record they would probably bomb a school (again) or an Orphanage. Perhaps they would level an entire city, prevent the city's reconstruction by a blockade that prevents importation of essential goods, such as Medicine or Construction Materials and then get upset when an angry inhabitant fires a rocket in frustration or accuse their opposition of not wanting a peace settlement. Oh wait.

Now tell me, Khalid, if terrorists were shooting rockets at your city from the roof of a school or orphanage, would you not want those terrorists to be gone? And if a blockade on a city could stop the shooting of rockets on your own home, would you condemn the government for blockading it? And if your people were seeking independence, do you think the right way to acheive that is to shoot rockets at the homes of innocent people?