The Trouble with HRE

[Navajo Joe]

Campaign: Battle for the Baltic V2
Me: Sweden
Problem:HRE

It is now just me and them left, all other factions are dead or vassals.

I have built Heavy Armourer and anybody that can have Partial Plate has it, in process of building final building for Full Plate. My infantry can fight on equal terms with HRE Feudal, Imperial and Gothic foot knights. However they turn up with 5-8 units of Heavy Horse with at least two of Gothic and Imperial Knights. My cavarly are unable to combat them and just swept aside and annilated. So, how on earth in the past have you killed Imperial & Gothic Heavy Horse, or do have to accept that death is imminient.

CC, don't move me to sub mods as its more a question about Gothic Knights than the mod

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Have you considered ditching your cav for spear and crossbow? How about utilizing local superiority and having your 2nd stack just mêlée infantry to avoid suicide cav and friendly fire range units. That's what I do as default...

[Point Blank]

Pikes!

[InsaneHanz]

Wall of spearmen with crossbows and mangonels behind them.

[Junius]

If you can't beat them at their own game, change the game. Access to late pikemen will be their undoing. Make sure that you never fight them on their terms, always have an ability to counter what they bring to the field. Spies and recon work will aid you well, and strike at their recruitment centres. If you can't hold them, capture quickly with siege equipment you bring yourself, exterminate the population and raise all buildings, then give the citadel up. Keep doing this and their ability to recruit high level troops, at least in the border/war regions will be crippled and you can make further in roads into their Empire.

[Ichon]

Situations like that if you have access to stakes maybe you can use them in field battles. Not in sieges as that is cheap but if you can lure half those knights thru some stakes things get much easier. Of course depending on the BAI being used that can be more difficult said than done. Otherwise all the other suggestions already made are the best ways to go about it.

Sometimes you simply have a battle nearly impossible to win without numerical superiority like a 2nd stack. If you are playing on VH even killing enemy general won't cause a rout with so many elite enemy units in the battle. 8 elite Heavy horses plus a general... quite difficult to beat without equal or more horses or some huge amount of pikes and good tactical position.

[Navajo Joe]

Guys,

Thanks for the helpful constructive posts.

Mega- Very good idea, I must send some re-inforcements
PB- Sorry no Pike or Halberdier Units
InsaneHanz- I think you knocked the nail on the head, i took too much heavy infantry, I will change army composition more spears.
Junius- A nice idea,' scorched earth policy', i need to destroy the stables in the citadels, stop them getting those Knights
Ichon- Stakes is the answer.

I will change my army composition to:

4 Units of Swedish Longbowmen, who will deploy stakes and hold the ground
2 Units of X-Bows, set behind
2 Units of Mounted X-Bows on the flanks
6 Units of Spears, Miltia, Mercs and Prussians, move forward to behind stakes
4 Units of Heavy Infantry, set behind spears
1 rather hanesome Swedish General
1 Mangonel for the BBQ

[JorisofHolland]

4 Units of Swedish Longbowmen, who will deploy stakes and hold the ground
2 Units of X-Bows, set behind
2 Units of Mounted X-Bows on the flanks
6 Units of Spears, Miltia, Mercs and Prussians, move forward to behind stakes
4 Units of Heavy Infantry, set behind spears
1 rather hanesome Swedish General
1 Mangonel for the BBQ

I would pick a handsome general instead of a hanesome, and some gunpoweder artillery instead of a Mangonel. Grape shot is more effective than flaming barrels.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Oooooo ...JoH in da house, bringing da Nazi Grammer pain....Hey...

[Haakon]

My problem with the HRE is that they are always destroyed :/

In all the campaigns I have played, they end up being excommunicated and attacked by France, Hungary and Denmark. I have tried everything to keep them alive, alliances, money donations and so on. Nothing works :/

[Navajo Joe]

Haakon,

You must therefore give Battle for the Baltic V2 ago, you really want to be their friend for as long as possible. If you are going to be their enemy, prepare for some serious hurt, they have the best professional troops

[Navajo Joe]

Joris,

Thanks for picking up my grammatical mistake, dreadfully sorry old chap, sadly to early for artillery, so the Mangonel will have to do.

Shockblast, Sadly no two handed axemen, other than the merc ones, although they are weak defensively.

The real nice think about Allmoge Miltia, they are nice and cheap to buy, certainly better defensively than offensively, but better than any spearmen i have access to, except Prussian Spearmen

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Imma still saying bring da pain with an all mêlée reinforcement stack...ftw. Works wonders in the field and they always give superlative performances in sieges. Local superiority is the key to any campaign. Remember "He who defends everything, defends nothing".


............................."I have the Power"**................


* Quote from Master of the Universe cartoon series. "Heman" to be exact.

[Navajo Joe]

Is this a picture of Mega Tortas on his holiday!!!!

That is a very nice quote, I do tend to be on the cautious side, always made a complete hash of multi stack battles

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh...alass I wish I was as brazenly handsome as ole boy. No unfortunately, that's just some poor yutz from google image. Although...,
his was at role play camp....Hey, Hey




The quote was from one of the HRE emperors...Charles V I believe.

[k/t]

Friedrich 2.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Friedrich 2.

Thank you. k/t for the save... kay then I'll say that the guy on the stamp is Carlos V/Charles V.

[Paladin247]

HRE is giving me fits in year 1279 of KoJ campaign in 6.2 RR/RC. I had eliminated Fatimids and gotten Seljuks and Khwaresms on the run when HRE attacked for no reason, expansionist I guess. Their heavy cav, armored head to hoof, are just making hamburger out of my Hospitallers and other KoJ heavies even when at level 10. My best spear and axe men ditto. Archers don't seem to bother them. No cannons avail yet. I've won a couple of battles by gang tackling them w/ multiple units/armies who always come away very bloody.

[Ichon]

HRE when strong enough to field multiple armies and has some fortresses/citadels and late techs can be really annoying. Your best bet is 2 armies vs 1 of theirs with javelin troops and Hospitaliers for their armored cavalry. Sacrifice some weak unit to get their cavalry to charge then javelins throw and your Hospitaliers charge their rear. It gets hard to do that though when their armies often have 7+ heavy cavalry but between 2 of your armies it should be possible. If you are rich just buy some throwaway mercenaries before very battle. Horse archers also wear them down over time. Send in a stack of just horse archers and they probably can't win the battle vs the armor but the will weaken it huge amount, then 2nd stack for relatively easier wiin.

[Paladin247]

Ichon, thanks. I'll have to look, but only javelin troops I think are native levies up in Syria. No KoJ skirmishers that I recall. Will try it out.