Time of Recruitment

[Morfans]

How come BC, with its very complex recruitment (sometimes esoteric - why "defensive units" , ie spearmen, shouldn't be recruited in castles ?) integrates no ToR scheme ?

This is particularly annoying with Seljuks, who start the game with Ottoman units and janissaries - I understand such units would be unlocked too late in the game if an exact ToR was implemented, but they could be delayed at least some 100-150 turns, for a touch of realism ...

Not even a sub-mod on this - don't BC fans care at all ?

[wudang_clown]

There's nothing esoteric in defensive/castles - offensive/towns division. It's done to differentiate between castles and cities - in other way than is just represented by different strat map models. These are game rules, which don't have to be valid for each and every one of us.

If it comes to ToR, I think it concerns only Ottoman and janissary units. I understand that it is particularly annoying, but what else is annoying for you (as I don't quite get your point)?

[Morfans]

There's nothing esoteric in defensive/castles - offensive/towns division. It's done to differentiate between castles and cities - in other way than is just represented by different strat map models. These are game rules, which don't have to be valid for each and every one of us.

If it comes to ToR, I think it concerns only Ottoman and janissary units. I understand that it is particularly annoying, but what else is annoying for you (as I don't quite get your point)?

I understand defensive units are game rules - although isolated castles (eg Trebizond) are weaker than they should (Trebizond resisted well after Constantinople actually ), that in a sense adds to the beauty of the game.

My point is that recruitment has been so accurately modeled in BC - to the point of separating defensive/offensive units - that you wouldn't expect Seljuk anachronistic units. But they are always there and I can't find any discussion on that in the forum.

Particularly the janissaries in the XII century are even visually improper - and that happens in a mod that is famous for its excellent unit set ...

So, is there a way to delay their availability by 100-150 turns - or perhaps replace them - without altering too much the game balance ?

[Captain_Aramsham]

Would it be possible to have some sort of scripted event - like the discovery of gunpowder in Vanilla - that triggered or enabled the ability to train Janissary units?

[Morfans]

Would it be possible to have some sort of scripted event - like the discovery of gunpowder in Vanilla - that triggered or enabled the ability to train Janissary units?

However, consider that (afaik) their recruitment started on a mass basis in the 2nd half of the XIV centrury, basically too late for BC ...

As a quick work-around, I have replaced:

turks janissary infantry -> turks timariot axemen (tirpan azaps)
turks janissary archer -> turkoman medium crossbowman

keeping the original janissary recruitment rates.

Stats are roughly equivalent.

Could not find a replacement for Janissary heavy infantry yet.

[wudang_clown]

We've been talking about it in the dev forum some time ago and decided that in the BC 3 Ottoman units will be replaced by some new and accurate units.

Until then we won't deal with it separately, sorry. Maybe someone will make a submod some day.

[Berkut]

I would be annoyed if TOR were implemented and the best units would not be recruitable until late in the game. It would be messed up balance wise, some "best" of certain factions realistically appeared in different times. Like roman cataphracts were around well before the beginning of BC but some comparable units of other factions weren't around until much later

[Morfans]

We've been talking about it in the dev forum some time ago and decided that in the BC 3 Ottoman units will be replaced by some new and accurate units.

Until then we won't going to deal with it separately, sorry. Maybe someone will make a submod some day.

Understood, thanks. I could try the submod, maybe ...


@ Berkut: I agree, we should not care of small time inaccuracies - but in the case of the Janissaries, we are talking of +200 years - and the inconsistency is fully apparent. Personally, I think janissaries spoil the realism of the battles, which would otherwise be incredible .