The biggest Empire/Kingdom in the middle ages

[Yoni]

Which nation had the most strongest emprie/kingdom in the middle ages, including military power and how many land they had.

[konny]

wordlwide? in Europe? in Asia? Near East? Early Middle Ages? High Middle Ages? Late Middle Ages? Military strength on paper? Military actually mustered in battle? Land being nominell part of this empire? Land being effectivly under control of the crown? Including or excluding vassals?

[Yoni]

ok, Who were the strongest countries in the early/high/late middle ages?[including vassals]

[Genius of the Restoration]

Give us some concrete dates for those definitions first. Strength is also one of those things that's difficult to measure. You might want to be more specific. Do you want the most powerful militarily? I could say the Mughal dynasty in India was very strong economically and dominated all it's neighbours. Do you want me to compare that to the economic situation in England with it's focus on wool exports during the same period? Give us a lead.

[Lysimachus]

Mongol Empire. Even to this day it was the largest contiguous empire ever formed. Not politically stable, but in terms of size and the strength of its military, definitely.

[Manuel I Komnenos]

Until 1071, I would say the Byzantine Empire because in terms of stability and military might compared to the other Kingdoms of Europe it was stronger..

[Holger Danske]

Jesus... Use Google for such an uninteresting question.

[Herakleios]

In Europe, I'd agree with Manuel Komnenos that the Byzantine Empire was the foremost power economically and militarily until about 1202, and even managed at times to exert considerable power in Asia, especially under the Macedonian Dynasty.

However in Asia things are a bit more complicated and depends upon the period.

The Tang Dynasty in China fits into the timespan that in the West is considered "medieval", it was the largest and most prosperous empire in the world of its time, controlling not only China but at different times Tarim Basin, Koko Nor, parts of northern Korea, and exerted influence in the Gobi area, Manchuria and as far as Transoxiana. It exerted huge amounts of military and political power, having East and Central Asia under its thumb for well over a century. The Tibetan Empire was another relevant state that provided the Tang with fierce competition.

The Caliphate under its different dynasties was the overlord of Western Asia, it was big, powerful and prosperous as well. India has its share of imperial glory during the so-called middle ages. The rajput Pratihara, Pala, and the Rashtrakuta dynasties were the three empires that controlled India before serious Muslim penetration began, after that, the most important Hindu empires are found in the south, the most notable of these being the Cholas and Vijayanagara, while the Muslims would set up the considerable Delhi Sultanate in the north. After the Tang and the caliphate fell, it would be quite a while until any empire of comparable proportions would emerge again, the Ghazanavid and later Khwarezm sultanates and the Fatimid caliphate were notable muslim powers but nothing comparable with the Abbasids, for example. The Seljuks built a huge empire which wielded impressive military might and presided over huge resources, but was way too unstable and collapsed almost as soon as it rose due to the regional autonomies fostered by its tribal political tendencies. In China, "barbarian" invaders would found the powerful Liao and later the Jin dynasty, and the Song dynasty would bring a cultural renaissance for China, but none of these approached the glory of the Tang. Instead, after the fall of the great empires that dominated the world during the seventh and eight centuries(perhaps until the ninth in the case of the Arabs), the next real great world power would be the Mongol Empire. After that, ephemeral steppe empires became the rule in central asia, including the Timurid empire, while the Mamluks would keep control of Egypt and the vaccum left by Byzantium in the Eastern Mediterranean after the fourth crusade would be filled by Venice while the kingdoms of Europe were steadily growing stronger. The Khmer Empire in Cambodia would also be a relevant regional power with impressive architecture.

However the next "Age of Empires" would really come with the rise of the last and most majestic empires the middle ages had seen since the Tang and the Caliphate in the period around the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries. In the Far East, the Ming Dynasty would overthrow the yoke of Mongol rule and initiate a new Golden Age in China, particularly in sea exploration; in Iran, the Safavids would come to control all of the plateau and found the greatest Iranian empire seen since perhaps the days of the Sassanians, and the Mughal empire would become the foremost power in India; while in the West, the Spanish and the Ottoman empires would grow to become the dominant powers of Europe and Western Asia, the former even controlling the strategic trade routes to India through its Union with Portugal. These last two empires marked, in a sense, the end of the middle ages, but they can also be counted as some of the most powerful empires of this period.

If you want to hear about notable European Empires, I guess the Angevin possessions approach empire but the most relevant imperial presence in the West after the fall of Rome was the Holy Roman Empire during its political and military heyday under the Ottonians and later the Hohenstaufen, not to mention the empire of Charlemagne. The Kingdom of Aragon had also acquired modest possessions in the Mediterranean, where maritime Italian cities such as Genoa and Venice also carved considerable spheres of influence. After the Hundred Years War and the Reconquista, Spain and France would become the most powerful states in Europe and the most prone to Imperialism, though Spain would have the upper hand until the palmy days of Mazarin, Turenne, and co. However, before the rise of France and Spain, imperialism in Europe would be at the very best modest compared to Asia.

That's a fair resume of imperialism in Europe and Asia(where it was more active) during the middle ages, though I am aware that I have ignored countless relatively ephemeral or irrelevant states in the process.

[Farnan]

What time period of the Middle Ages?

Starting it at 768 with the coronation of Charlemagne and ending in 1517 with Reformation (this is taking a Euro-Centric world view) it lasts nearly 850 years...

[Odovacar]

There are happier times and less happy times but eventually it comes down to happy and not happy individuals and regions.

[Farnan]

There are happier times and less happy times but eventually it comes down to happy and not happy individuals and regions.

Wrong thread?

[Odovacar]

Wrong thread?

Oh no yes...

[Herakleios]

Here's a rough chronology of more or less how lasting the Medieval Empire's effective power was, though in this sense it's not fully accurate, but I hope it helps:

Europe, North Africa, and Asia:

Byzantine Empire 330-1200
Tang Dynasty 618-907
Rashidun Caliphate 632-661
Umayyad Caliphate 661-750
Abbasid Caliphate 750-833
Carolingian Empire 768-888
Bulgaria 880-930
Gokturk Khaganate 552-747
Khazar Khaganate 700-1016
Empire of Harsha 590-647
Rashtrakuta Empire 753-982
Pratihara Empire 730-910
Pala Empire 750-1174
Tibetan Empire 618-842
Goguryeo 37 BC-668 AD
Srivijaya Empire 683-1200

Song Dynasty 960-1279
Fatimid Calphate 909-1070
Ghaznavid Empire 963-1040
Holy Roman Empire 919-1250
Western Chalukya Empire 973-1189
Chola Empire 850-1279
Khmer Empire 802-1327
Kara-Khanid Khanate 840-1212

Great Seljuk Empire 1037-1194
Khwazremian Empire 1077-1231
Sultanate Of Rum 1077-1307
Zengid Dynasty 1127-1250
Ayyubid Empire 1171-1341
Almohad Empire 1121-1269
Almoravid Empire 1040-1147
Danish Empire of Canute 1016-1035
Republic of Genoa 1099-1380
Kingdom of Sicily 1059-1250
Kingdom of Aragon 1340-1480
Kingdom of Castille 1230-1480
Angevin Empire 1154-1214
Kamakura Shogunate 1185-1333
Kara-Khitan Khanate 1124-1218

Mongol Empire 1206-1260
Mamluk Sultanate 1250-1517
Vijayanagara Empire 1336-1565
Delhi Sultanate 1206-1398
Ashikaga Shogunate 1338-1467
Timurid Empire 1370-1405
Yuan Dynasty 1271-1368
Golden Horde 1240-1370
Ilkhanate 1256-1370
Chagatai Khanate 1225-1370
Kalmar Union 1397-1523
Kingdom of Hungary 1342-1490
Serbian Empire 1346-1371
Venetian Republic 1204-1489

Spanish Empire 1492-1648
Ottoman Empire 1293-1699
Portuguese Empire 1497-1663
Safavid Empire 1501-1736
Ming Dynasty 1368-1644
Mughal Empire 1526-1707

Pre-Columbian:

Inca Empire 1438-1533
Aztec Empire 1325-1521
Maya 250-900

African:

Mali Empire 1230-1600
Ghana Empire 790-1240
Songhai Empire 1340-1591

I have highlighted those which I deem to have been particularly powerful at their apex, though such things are debatable.

The list is a bit confused as far as dates go, I admit. In some, I have used the dates of what I have calculated to be their time of power, in others, I may have used more typical foundation and disintegration dates, for example, Tang central power basically broke after the An Lushan rebellion in the 750's, but I put it's date of demise at 907, while the Ottomans lasted well into the 20th century as a legal entity but I used their finishing date as 1699 (Karlowitz). Some of the dates I have given for decline are only rough estimates, as well. Also, not all of the states listed are empires in the real sense, but sometimes simply relatively powerful kingdoms or regional powers. But these things can be discussed further into the thread if need be.

It should also be taken into account that a "medieval" period is s fairly Eurocentric concept of dubious use outside European history, but anyway, I hope this helps the OP.

[Babur]

Mongol Empire if you're talking about sheer size

[Odovacar]

Kingdom of Hungary 1444-1490
Serbian Empire 1346-1371
Venetian Republic 1204-1489

Brilliant post, but Hungary was the most powerful roughly between 1340-1382.

[Lysimachus]

Brilliant post, but Hungary was the most powerful roughly between 1340-1382.

Hungary was the most powerful kingdom in Europe between 1340-1382? I thought Herakleios's dates were more accurate since they coincided with the rule of János Hunyadi and Mátyás Corvin who held the Turks at bay, kept Austria and Bohemia in check and reformed the administration of the kingdom to centralise power more towards the monarch rather than the rebellious nobility.

[Odovacar]

Hungary was the most powerful kingdom in Europe between 1340-1382? I thought Herakleios's dates were more accurate since they coincided with the rule of János Hunyadi and Mátyás Corvin held the Turks at bay, kept Austria and Bohemia in check and reformed the administration of the kingdom to centralise power more towards the monarch rather than the rebellious nobility.

No. I stated, that the Hungarian power was at its peak between 1340-1382.
I wouldn't say that Hungary was the most powerful kingdom at this time, although probably it was so, since the top other two France and England were fighting the 100 years war, and HRE was rather illusory.

After 1370 King Louis inherited the Kingdom of Poland. That meant, he ruled over the territory of today's Hungary, Transylvania, Poland, Slovakia, Croatia. At this time Hungary was first in mining gold, second in silver (behind Bohemia) Louis defeated Naples (although he had to give it up) and Venice, the turks, the lithvanians, the tatars. Hungary was perfectly safe from all enemy. Louis created a university and the first hungarian navy.

During the tme of John Hunyadi, parts of Hungary were occupied by austrians and the turks closely endangered Hungary. Basically the kingdom was fighting for mere survival.
Mathias did the same on the souther borders against the turks, while the same time hoplessly but successfully fighting against the austrians and the checz.
In the long run though the efforts of Mathias were futile, and shortly after his death Hungary weakened severely.
We can't even compare the two age.

[Thema'zandaar]

I can list contenders for the title. The Mongol Empire (size), the Abbassid Caliphate (most industrious) and the Byzantine Empire (longevity). I don't believe the Great Seljukids should count as a single empire since it fractured after the death of Malik Shah (1092) into several smaller "empires".

[Herakleios]

Brilliant post, but Hungary was the most powerful roughly between 1340-1382.

Thanks for pointing that out Odovacar, I just did some reading on Louis I and you're probably right in classing his reign as a peak in Hungarian history, I was only familiar with Hunyadi's and Matthias Corvinus' reigns previously, though I think theirs are still worth adding.

Check the exploits of Louis I, Lysimachus, he was no slouch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_I_of_Hungary

[Commisar Vlad]

was russian empire no?