Politization of science

[Amagi]

Got this vid from a friend on youtube, and I gotta say- that fellow is spot on.



Do you agree with his main argument, that science is nowadays altered in order to serve a "solution" or "result" that is wished for already before the scientifical research even started yet, or do you believe, that science still is "free" and set apart from political outcomes?

It´s a no brainer to figure, that I am all with the guy above. In my opinion there´s plenty of examples where it can be figuratively shown, that science more than once is used as a tool in order to justify certain policies (Climategate, holocaust, ...) or do you disagree?

Your arguments gentlemen.

Amagi

[Jabberwock]

Who the is this guy? His sarcasm makes me want to slap a baby.

Do he just say the "science" that states people of lighter skin are further evolved than those of darker skin is to be prohibited only because of political correctness?

This is the politization of science you are referring to?

[bushbush]

who the is he? and why should i listen to him instead of acclaimed scientists around the world. If you want to believe holocaust did not happen, or skin color determines intelligence, or nazy germany did not start ww2 or other idiotic garbage, go ahead. Stop polluting TWC with it. Go back to youtube where you are from with your trash.

[magickyleo101]

who the is he? and why should i listen to him instead of acclaimed scientists around the world. If you want to believe holocaust did not happen, or skin color determines intelligence, or nazy germany did not start ww2 or other idiotic garbage, go ahead. Stop polluting TWC with it. Go back to youtube where you are from with your trash.

+1

[Amagi]

Are you guys so full of hate, that u cant even debate a neutral issue? your constant rambling, defaming and your overall aggresiveness makes debating you guys not a pleassure.

Stay on topic or stay out, how´s that?
---------------------------
Is science influenced by political motivations- or not?

[bushbush]

Are you guys so full of hate, that u cant even debate a neutral issue? your constant rambling, defaming and your overall aggresiveness makes debating you guys not a pleassure.

Stay on topic or stay out, how´s that?
---------------------------
Is science influenced by political motivations- or not?

like your purpose here is to have a "debate" anyways. your goal is nothing more than a continued spread of your silly agenda that somehow science is "communist" because it does not support your views of racial superiority, holocaust denial, history revisionism, and other trash.

your very own video is made by a youtube bigot. What is there to discuss? It is not like you gonna open your damn eyes and take a long look at your BS and finally realize how smelly your own crap is.

[Tiberios]

like your purpose here is to have a "debate" anyways. your goal is nothing more than a continued spread of your silly agenda that somehow science is "communist" because it does not support your views of racial superiority, holocaust denial, history revisionism, and other trash.

your very own video is made by a youtube bigot. What is there to discuss? It is not like you gonna open your damn eyes and take a long look at your BS and finally realize how smelly your own crap is.

This. Enough said.

A load of bs.

[Stark of Winterfell]

Are you guys so full of hate, that u cant even debate a neutral issue? your constant rambling, defaming and your overall aggresiveness makes debating you guys not a pleassure.

Stay on topic or stay out, how´s that?
---------------------------
Is science influenced by political motivations- or not?

But none of your posts are about a "neutral issue"-they always go back to something about the Jews. Without watching the video, I thought you might've have found something else to talk about, but then you listed the Holocaust as one of your examples of politicized science. You're a one track troll.

[nce_wht_guy]

Are you guys so full of hate, that u cant even debate a neutral issue? your constant rambling, defaming and your overall aggresiveness makes debating you guys not a pleassure.

No Amagi, we're just not stupid.

[Wilder]

Before I start I can't say how pleased I am that holocast denial and global warming "skepticism" were just lumped together.

Anyway, my 2 cents I've said before so I'll just quote myself:

This is my perspective on the matter of "expertise": You are quite correct in saying that just because a body of people that are generally regarded as experts say this one thing, that does not make them right, but there is a problem here. The weight of authority carried by the IPCC Any meritocratic pool of formally trained people in a technical field may not be fully conveyed to you. Disagreeing with the IPCC said pool on the matter of climate change the relevant topic is akin to disagreeing with biologists on the matter of evolution. That is often dismissed as hyperbole, but it is not, not even a little.

So the option I see here is this, either agree with the experts, or become one. Not that I am suggesting that you go out get a degree (although I would never recommend against it ), but rather a cogent, fact based, hard hitting argument is necessary. I have yet to see one presented. Rather I have seen a lot of made up data, poor analysis, a reflexive misuse of scientific concepts, self contradicting arguments, and more than a little contrarianism.

Basically this "politicization of science" stuff just an excuse to question people's motivations before dealing with the more challenging (and important) task of grappling with the actual science. If one simply must just accuse scientists of being on the take, one must do so AFTER you have throughly disproven them.

[Exarch]

of course science is politicized; the way political leaders used to use priests/gods to legitimise their policies or rules; the key is to analyze the studies which those politicians or scientists are using to back up their beliefs

[motiv-8]

of course science is politicized; the way political leaders used to use priests/gods to legitimise their policies or rules; the key is to analyze the studies which those politicians or scientists are using to back up their beliefs

Ah yeaahhh... Except that scientific studies can be subjected to review for validity, unlike the musings of a seer or priest.

Analogy FAIL.

[Exarch]

Ah yeaahhh... Except that scientific studies can be subjected to review for validity, unlike the musings of a seer or priest.

Analogy FAIL.

analysis FAIL

obviously you're not involved in the science or research industry, otherwise you'd know about how science can be politicized; the science of climate change is a great example-or pharmaceutical backed drug research studies for example.
or how about the controversy over MMR vaccines allegedly being linked to autism and the anti-vaccination movement? peer reviews simply allow a measure of orthodoxy; they dont guarantee authenticity.

[pickelhaube]

ah, popular twc game "hound the Amagi publically", its not that I support his ideas (in fact I find most of them quite ridiculous, especially that jew-centered agenda), but guys who hound him publically just because of his views leave insanely ugly impression of deeply unsettled people.

On topic, science quite often served political needs like prostitute.

[♔Goodguy1066♔]

ah, popular twc game "hound the Amagi publically", its not that I support his ideas (in fact I find most of them quite ridiculous, especially that jew-centered agenda), but guys who hound him publically just because of his views leave insanely ugly impression of deeply unsettled people.

I'm sorry, but his ideas are often so offending that hounding him publically is the least we can do. Seeing one of his holocaust denial thread after the holocaust memorial day just makes me want to strangle someone, I can't believe that TWC still allows such terrible rubbish to pollute TWC...

[pickelhaube]

I'm sorry, but his ideas are often so offending that hounding him publically is the least we can do. Seeing one of his holocaust denial thread after the holocaust memorial day just makes me want to strangle someone, I can't believe that TWC still allows such terrible rubbish to pollute TWC...

Well no matter if you consider his opinion offending and wrong still its lame to hound, especially in such weak schoolchildren "10 on 1" way, seriously are you people bunch of unsatisfied nerds? Its plain ugly and doesnt make your ideas or opinion look good in fact. Such dog pack reactions are traits of very ugly societies.

And I hate double standards, people who advocate and question armenian genocide are honorable debate members, and person who questions holocaust is scum of earth? Get your standards fair and straight. Becasue there is no difference here. Or people who protect every bit of muslim dehumanizing ways are worth listening to and Amagi isnt?

Dont take me wrong I dont share 90% of his views probably but being part of liberal fascist pack is not better than being part of neo-nazi history revisionist group. Not at all.

On topic again. Science can be clearly victim of political interest. While in some cases like math or astronomy its hardly possible, history and biology are clearly threatened by extreme political views and that is of course ugly.

[♔Goodguy1066♔]

And I hate double standards, people who advocate and question armenian genocide are honorable debate members, and person who questions holocaust is scum of earth? Get your standards fair and straight. Becasue there is no difference here. Or people who protect every bit of muslim dehumanizing ways are worth listening to and Amagi isnt?

I never said that Armenian genocide deniers or terrorist supporters are honourable, they're just less controversial than Amagi and his BS. Maybe hounding him is wrong and childish, but then again so are his views. His views spark anger and frustration among many members of TWC, which results in him being hounded. It reminds me of RL, do people like Nick Griffin of the BNP not get hounded? He does, and it serves him right...

[pickelhaube]

I never said that Armenian genocide deniers or terrorist supporters are honourable, they're just less controversial than Amagi and his BS. Maybe hounding him is wrong and childish, but then again so are his views. His views spark anger and frustration among many members of TWC, which results in him being hounded. It reminds me of RL, do people like Nick Griffin of the BNP not get hounded? He does, and it serves him right...

See, keyword you used. Less controversial they are and thats a huge mistake why you consider them less controversial? They are million times worse. To put it simple you are throwing rocks at village fool while real monster lives peacefully near village and even fed by some of your friends who with laughter throw rocks together with you.
Nazi-crimes denial, israel "control" of nations and so on are loon topics and not really serious becasue everything was solved about them long ago.Its a corpse and noone will ever revive ideas of Hitler genocide and noone takes for serious theory that Israel controls whole world.

But there are real crimes out there happening today, not 70 years in the past. And there are plenty of people who never repented for them and openly support today's religious abominations hiding behind "freedom" and even trying to expand sphere of influence of such things, using support of overliberal crazies.

You really throw your haterocks in very wrong direction, think about people who are proud to treat women like animals on nationwide level today, and think who deserves a rock into face more - hopeless history revisionist or today's religious zealot with his sick liberal friend...

[Kjertesvein]

He start of great, with what sound like the idea of Basic research Vs Applied research. The former being the long turm research, less socio- emotional research on the fundamental issues which may or may not find a conclusion (genetic research, composite materials, etc.). Basic research more populare in academys/univercitys then other areas. The latter is targeted research, example: research on a cure for a specific disease, develope better wind turbines or manipulate a special crop and is populare in politics and industrial companys. Some take this into their own hands. Offcourse, Basic research is not completly apolitical, but more doors may open as a result then research which must follow a specific culturel events and economic goal.

In the end, he falls flat with the political reason -- which I see is economical and publicity reasons, but still an initially valid question. The conclusions and his political opinion, I detest.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Got this vid from a friend on youtube, and I gotta say- that fellow is spot on.



Do you agree with his main argument, that science is nowadays altered in order to serve a "solution" or "result" that is wished for already before the scientifical research even started yet, or do you believe, that science still is "free" and set apart from political outcomes?

It´s a no brainer to figure, that I am all with the guy above. In my opinion there´s plenty of examples where it can be figuratively shown, that science more than once is used as a tool in order to justify certain policies (Climategate, holocaust, ...) or do you disagree?

Your arguments gentlemen.

Amagi

Amagi the only person in this thread who politicises "science", although you are in fact refering to history here as well, is you, obviously.