Marines and Bravery

[Tajir]

FYI, this isn't an anti-marines topic or political at all.


I just wanted to understand this illusion that many of my countrymen have of our country's troops and their bravery in battle. Certainly when there's the threat of death in any situation the person has balls for taking that risk, but its dwarfed by the bravery shown by the rebel groups we're fighting against.

Less so the Afghans since they're a tribal/warring society with 30 years of recent consistent war and have only had government for a short period in their history. More so the Iraqis (non-Baathists & Al Qaeda foreigners) who have been disarmed and demilitarized for the better part of the past 2500 years and especially the past 30 years under Saddam and how they had this will to fight. I mean, imagine the fact that they go into battle each day with drones and satellites over their heads, spies in their neighborhoods, and they go into battle with no armor and next to zero logistics and no heavy fire support or air support.

They go to battle with American troops that have armor, constant air support, heavy armored backup, intelligence reports, and a tiny fraction the threat of death compared to Iraqi militias. Whenever I see our troops fighting they're calling into radios and signaling aircraft every 10 seconds into battle...I mean they should but it also takes away the mythical warrior status we pin on them.

This isn't about sides or the war, just saying that if we consider our troops to be brave then those Iraqi natives fighting against us must have a wicked almost unnatainable amount of courage going into battle against those odds and with a very high chance of death. Admirable at the least.

[cottontail]

anyone who thinks it is brave to bomb markets full of innocent civilians and to throw acid in the face of girls just trying to go to school needs their head examined.

End discussion.

[Sir Pignans]

anyone who thinks it is brave to bomb markets full of innocent civilians and to throw acid in the face of girls just trying to go to school needs their head examined.

End discussion.

Morally wrong, bit it took guts to stand up to might of the Americans.

Not saying there right in ANY way. But they've got balls, you can't deny that.

[cottontail]

Morally wrong, bit it took guts to stand up to might of the Americans.

Not saying there right in ANY way. But they've got balls, you can't deny that.

No, anyone can just go around murdering who they want. I could walk into a mall today and gun a bunch of random people down. Does that make me brave for "standing up to the evil might of the United States"? No.

What people don't seem to realize is that it is rather easy to go around killing innocents and then killing yourself in the process. It takes no special skill. They are not expecting it. You are proving nothing by murdering people who have done nothing wrong.

They are cowards, real cowards. Anyone who kills schoolchildren just trying to get an education, bombs busses, and butchers innocents is a complete and utter coward who is too afraid to correct the wrongs in their lives, and instead decide to take it our on someone they don't even know. It is disgusting, and you are a fool if you think this is a good show of bravery.

[Sir Pignans]

No, anyone can just go around murdering who they want. I could walk into a mall today and gun a bunch of random people down. Does that make me brave for "standing up to the evil might of the United States"? No.

What people don't seem to realize is that it is rather easy to go around killing innocents and then killing yourself in the process. It takes no special skill. They are not expecting it. You are proving nothing by murdering people who have done nothing wrong.

They are cowards, real cowards. Anyone who kills schoolchildren just trying to get an education, bombs busses, and butchers innocents is a complete and utter coward who is too afraid to correct the wrongs in their lives, and instead decide to take it our on someone they don't even know. It is disgusting, and you are a fool if you think this is a good show of bravery.

I'm talking about the guys who actually fought, fought as in toe to toe with them in the beggining of the war.

What they do is wrong, what they stand for is wrong and most of all, yes some ARE cowards, but I don't care what they do.

If you fight, FIGHT fight in any war, your brave, you term it fanatical, but it still takes guts.

[Nevins]

I'm talking about the guys who actually fought, fought as in toe to toe with them in the beggining of the war.

What they do is wrong, what they stand for is wrong and most of all, yes some ARE cowards, but I don't care what they do.

If you fight, FIGHT fight in any war, your brave, you term it fanatical, but it still takes guts.

The taliban have been annihilated in nearly every pitched battle that they have fought with the ISAF. Thats not bravery, its stupidity.

[ELITEOFKINGWARMAN8]

No, anyone can just go around murdering who they want. I could walk into a mall today and gun a bunch of random people down. Does that make me brave for "standing up to the evil might of the United States"? No.

What people don't seem to realize is that it is rather easy to go around killing innocents and then killing yourself in the process. It takes no special skill. They are not expecting it. You are proving nothing by murdering people who have done nothing wrong.

They are cowards, real cowards. Anyone who kills schoolchildren just trying to get an education, bombs busses, and butchers innocents is a complete and utter coward who is too afraid to correct the wrongs in their lives, and instead decide to take it our on someone they don't even know. It is disgusting, and you are a fool if you think this is a good show of bravery.

Does that go for the Taliban or for us since we are evil when we accidentally bomb schools because the idiot school administrators let the Taliban fighters hide in the schools?

Originally Posted by Volh Vseslavich
It is not about US troops being invincible, but them fighting weakest enemies possible.
I doubt about their "invincibility" if they fought a better-equipped army with modern weapons.
As for the bravery - it is a quality of a person, not a segment of military.
Yes marines are brave to the same extent as Taliban is.

Um no..... Ever heard of World War 1? World War 2? Korean War?


And why do you think we don't fight other nations like Russia? I don't know if you know of such a thing, but it called nuclear weapons, and a lot of the top nations in the world have them, and um... you invade them, guess what going to happen Genius?

[cottontail]

Does that go for the Taliban or for us since we are evil when we accidentally bomb schools because the idiot school administrators let the Taliban fighters hide in the schools?

I was talking about the Taliban

[Heinz Guderian]

I think you'll find that Internet Marines are the bravest Marines out there.

[Pickle_mole]

Its so brave to bomb civilians and ambush soldiers dresses as civilians! You should be commenting on how big of cowards they are.

"The taliban have been annihilated in nearly every pitched battle that they have fought with the ISAF. Thats not bravery, its stupidity. "

^this

Our guys arent "true warriors" or "brave" because we call in air strikes to roast the terrorist s? What a disgusting moral ground you inhabit.

[Captain Jin]

Some of them have guts, but there's a thin line between bravery and stupidity and many of them cross it. For the most part they will only attack an element if they think they have 3x the amount of troops, so that says something about their bravery (speaking of the Taliban). In Iraq, it's far less a case of bravery as it's not hard to sit on the side of the road and detonate IEDs buried in the ground, especially when dressed like a civilian.

[Thanatos]

Some of them have guts, but there's a thin line between bravery and stupidity and many of them cross it. For the most part they will only attack an element if they think they have 3x the amount of troops, so that says something about their bravery (speaking of the Taliban).

Not to play Devil's Advocate here, but wouldn't that mean that they were using their brains, to only engage when they are relatively confident of victory?

[Captain Jin]

Not to play Devil's Advocate here, but wouldn't that mean that they were using their brains, to only engage when they are relatively confident of victory?

Yup, doesn't seem to help them much though. In fact, while using their brains in that regard they often initiate ambushes when ISAF troops are well out of effective range of most of the weapons their using are. Like I said some have guts and some are just stupid. I give the Taliban more props for bravery then I ever would the insurgents in Iraq, who are cowards for the most part.

[Thanatos]

Yup, doesn't seem to help them much though. In fact, while using their brains in that regard they often initiate ambushes when ISAF troops are well out of effective range of most of the weapons their using are. Like I said some have guts and some are just stupid. I give the Taliban more props for bravery then I ever would the insurgents in Iraq, who are cowards for the most part.

Care to provide some examples for comparing/contrasting? Not that I doubt you, but I'd just like some examples to think about.

[Captain Jin]

Care to provide some examples for comparing/contrasting? Not that I doubt you, but I'd just like some examples to think about.

Difference between what? The Taliban fighting and the insurgents in Iraq fighting?

[Caelius]

I just wanted to understand this illusion that many of my countrymen have of our country's troops and their bravery in battle.

.....

Wait, wait, wait....

What illusion?








Case in point:

Notice the loaded pistol and Marine K-Bar in hand:


No words needed to describe this one:

I think you'll find that Internet Marines are the bravest Marines out there.

Braver than Internet German tank commanders?

Gee whiz...

[Heinz Guderian]

.....


Braver than Internet German tank commanders?

Absolutely! They are quick to anger. They over-react to any slight. It is srs bizness this policing of the internets. And most importantly of all, they are the extremely different to real life marines. For example, real life marines arent normally virgins.

[Nikitn]

.....

Wait, wait, wait....

What illusion?








Case in point:

Notice the loaded pistol and Marine K-Bar in hand:


No words needed to describe this one:






Braver than Internet German tank commanders?

Gee whiz...

Read up on Baghdad Bob.

[Mightypeon]

Some of them have guts, but there's a thin line between bravery and stupidity and many of them cross it. For the most part they will only attack an element if they think they have 3x the amount of troops, so that says something about their bravery (speaking of the Taliban). In Iraq, it's far less a case of bravery as it's not hard to sit on the side of the road and detonate IEDs buried in the ground, especially when dressed like a civilian.

On average, the defender has an advantadge which is why one normally wishes to assure a local 3:1 superiority when going for the attack, especially if you have to do it quick (because the other side gets to airstrike your ass off).
If I would be trying to combat a US occupation in Germany (with, lets say a couple of G3s, maybe a MG3 or 2 and a Rocket launcher here or there) I would question the operational ability of a insurrection leader intending on attacking US combat troops (I would rather shoot at logistic convoys anyway, thank you very much) on "equal" terms.

You do not wage war on "fair" terms (unless you have a deathwish that is), and 10 Talibs against 10 Marines is not exactly "fair" in the first place.

[Wilder]

People here are confusing the terms brave and moral.

Hijacking a jet and flying it into a building is brave.
Hijacking a jet and flying it into a building is not moral.

Waging a war in which you are heavily outgunned but target civilians to compensate is immoral
Waging a war in which you are heavily outgunned but target civilians to compensate is not cowardly

Learn what words mean folks.

there's a thin line between bravery and stupidity and many of them cross it.

I would argue that there is no line at all, it is more of a vein diagram type situation.