Theories: Family Tree

[Romanichine]

I was intrigued by a thread recently opened by Marto about royal family issues: Not getting children, no marriage offer and such. So I started making tests to see if I could figure these things and formulate theories on how this whole family thing is working.

Test #1

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Grand Campaign with Spain. M/M. Characters will age 0.5 years per turn.
Objective: See how often marriage offers will appear.
Plan: Never accept any offer and see what will happen. Don't conquer anything. Build my two starting cities and have armies large enough so that the AI is not tempted to take one, kill my family member and screw this test.




Turn 4 - Marriage offer to Urraca el Valiente - DECLINED.
Turn 10 - Marriage offer to Urraca el Valiente - DECLINED.
Turn 12 - Marriage offer to Urraca el Valiente - DECLINED.
Turn 18 - Marriage offer to Urraca el Valiente - DECLINED.
Turn 20 - Marriage offer to Urraca el Valiente - DECLINED.
Turn 21 - Marriage offer to Urraca el Valiente - DECLINED.
Turn 23 - Marriage offer to Urraca el Valiente - DECLINED.
Turn 28 - Marriage offer to Urraca el Valiente - DECLINED.
Turn 41 - Urraca el Valiente is 40 year old. She retires as a nun.
Turn 43 - Teresa el Valiente is 40 year old. She retires as a nun.
Turn 45 - A bride is offered to Prince Rodrigo.


Interesting Facts:
1) Only Urraca received offers until she went away.
2) No adoption candidate were offered.
3) No children were conceived by the King.
4) A bride was offered to Prince Rodrigo after his two sisters went away.

Test #2

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Grand Campaign with Spain. M/M. Characters will age 0.5 years per turn.
Objective: See how often marriage offers will appear.
Plan: Don't accept early marriage offer, but at some point accept one with Urraca. Don't conquer anything. Build my two starting cities and have armies large enough so that the AI is not tempted to take one, kill my family member and screw this test.




Turn 6 - Marriage offer to Urraca el Valiente - DECLINED.
Turn 11 - Marriage offer to Urraca el Valiente - DECLINED.
Turn 15 - Marriage offer to Urraca el Valiente - DECLINED.
Turn 17 - A child is born from King Alfonso and Constance. It's a cute little girl.
Turn 21 - Marriage offer to Urraca el Valiente - DECLINED.
Turn 22 - Marriage offer to Urraca el Valiente - DECLINED.
Turn 28 - Marriage offer to Urraca el Valiente - DECLINED.
Turn 30 - Marriage offer to Urraca el Valiente - ACCEPTED.
Turn 32 - Marriage offer to Teresa el Valiente - DECLINED.
Turn 43 - Teresa el Valiente is 40 year old. She retires as a nun.
Turn 44 - King Alfonso dies of old age.
Turn 45 - A bride is offered to King Rodrigo.


Interesting Facts:
1) Only Urraca received marriage offers until she accepted one.
2) No adoption candidate were offered.
3) Teresa el Valiente started receiving marriage offers after her sister was married.
4) A bride was offered to Prince Rodrigo after his two sisters were either gone or married.

Test #3: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...19#post7234719


Although these tests are not conclusive, I will emit theories on how the royal family work based on the results.

Theories

1) The game will always try to marry your oldest princess first (Still True).
2) The game will not present a bride to a general if he has an unmarried sister (Obsolete but still true).
3) The game will not offer any candidate for adoption if you have an unmarried princess or general (Proved false).
4) The game will not present a bride to a general if you have an unmarried princess (Still True).
5) The game will always try to marry your oldest general first (Still True).
6) When the number of generals is lower than the number of settlements, you will receive candidates for adoptions (Still True - probably false).
7) You cannot have a marriage offer and a candidate for adoption on the same turn. A marriage offer has priority (Still True).


Any help or comments are, of course, appreciated.

[Neptune7]

My question is a royal family tree issue...So I will go ahead and ask it..
How can I minimize and prevent family tragedies? Is it possible?...I keep getting those....

[KngGilgamesh]

if you mean death from old age, that can't be avoided. nor can death in battle(he will die if you aren't careful), assassination attempts can be diminished by having a spy and/or assassin with the general.
Traits and Ancillaries like healthy, holy grail, etc. also help.

oh and its my 50th post!...................................at last!

[Romanichine]

Exactly as KG said. Your family members will start dying of natural causes when they are around 60 years old.

[Neptune7]

What I mean is the family tragedy screen notifications that show up in the beginning of the turn. I assumed they applied to underage children only, however I could be wrong..They may apply to adult General deaths only, or maybe both...I don't know...

Oh, Ok, only adult generals only, and not underage kids....

[Neptune7]

Current theories
3) The game will not offer any candidate for adoption if you have an unmarried princess or general (I am fishing here).


Any help or comments are, of course, appreciated.

Ok, more on topic now...I can back up your theory 3 (kind of), because I have noticed a serious decline in the number of Generals I have in my English campaign at around turn 100 through 160. I had several princesses that I just let sit around, and did nothing with...Do they automatically marry a general of yours within range, or do you have to actively do it yourself?

[Romanichine]

Ok, more on topic now...I can back up your theory 3 (kind of), because I have noticed a serious decline in the number of Generals I have in my English campaign at around turn 100 through 160. I had several princesses that I just let sit around, and did nothing with...Do they automatically marry a general of yours within range, or do you have to actively do it yourself?

Nepture, are you saying you did not get any candidates for adoption while your princesses were around?

[Neptune7]

Nepture, are you saying you did not get any candidates for adoption while your princesses were around?

I don't remember, I just assumed it because my total Generals numbers were down, and I accept all adoptions..However, I will keep some princesses unmarried in the future, and pay attention to it..

[KngGilgamesh]

you do it yourself if marriage isn't offered.

[Neptune7]

you do it yourself if marriage isn't offered.

thanks, that was my mistake in that game..

[KngGilgamesh]

no problem,
charm plays a big role in getting your princess married.

[Neptune7]

no problem,
charm plays a big role in getting your princess married.

Is there anyway to increase charm of my princesses?

[tium]

use her as a diplomat

[KngGilgamesh]

Traits, the usual stuff, have her in good environment, still pretty random.
I don't really use them a lot, since i usually play Muslim factions.
Maybe some on else can help you.

[Nazgûl Killer]

Roman, this is a fantastic test and I praise you for thinking of it. Your theories seem quite right by logic and your tests are quite informative. I urge you to continue these tests if possible, perhaps with a different bloodline and difficulty.

In any way, good job mate.

[Ascarona]

Roman, this is a fantastic test and I praise you for thinking of it. Your theories seem quite right by logic and your tests are quite informative. I urge you to continue these tests if possible, perhaps with a different bloodline and difficulty.

Indeed, we need WAY more tests like this to prove things about the game. Keep up the good work Roman!

[John Doe]

I thought the number of general was linked to how many settlements you have, so if in your test you don't expand, then there might be some code to limit the family expansion and keep that number constant. Just a guess on my part.

[gdo0d6]

I thought the number of general was linked to how many settlements you have, so if in your test you don't expand, then there might be some code to limit the family expansion and keep that number constant. Just a guess on my part.

Agreed. If the OP had expanded, adoption offers and/or man of the hour events would have appeared as often as the marriage offers. So I think theory 3 only applies because the general to settlement ratio was high enough. On the same thought, I believe that the adoption offers have nothing to do with the marital status of the rest of your family (I'm fishing this time).

[Romanichine]

I thought the number of general was linked to how many settlements you have, so if in your test you don't expand, then there might be some code to limit the family expansion and keep that number constant. Just a guess on my part.

Yes, I know about that. But no matter how many settlements you have, it seems that marriage offer will only be made to princesses as long as you have one that is unmarried. So theories #1 & #2 are unaffected by settlement count. Although it may affect how often you get one.

Theory #3 is fishy, probably false (yet to prove it with tests) and adoption offers are surely affected by settlement count. That's widely accepted by M2TW players.

Edit #1:

Agreed. If the OP had expanded, adoption offers and/or man of the hour events would have appeared as often as the marriage offers. So I think theory 3 only applies because the general to settlement ratio was high enough. On the same thought, I believe that the adoption offers have nothing to do with the marital status of the rest of your family (I'm fishing this time).

Yes, and I agree with all that too. But for the sake of testing, I may formulate stupid theories that will prove false with later experiments.

Edit #2:
@Nazgul: Thanks for your kind words and encouragements. I will surely pursue this further.

[Romanichine]

I made a new experiment to see if a princess would prevent any family member from receiving marriage offers (not only her brothers). To keep as close as possible from previous tests I played Spain again but this time with a new family.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Grand Campaign with Spain. M/M. Characters will age 0.5 years per turn.
Objective: Determine if a unmarried princess affects marriage offers for the whole family tree (not only her brothers, as per theory #2).
Plan: Modded Family Tree for Spain. Don't accept any marriage offer with the princess until she retires, to see if Roy Peres would get any marriage offers. Defend the starting two territories. Never expand.

Note: Vaasco has been removed from the lineup. There is no general not part of the family tree.

The starting family tree is:



Event Log
-----------
Turn 02 - Mariage offer to Elena Peres (declined).
Turn 03 - Mariage offer to Elena Peres (declined).
Turn 06 - Mariage offer to Elena Peres (declined).
Turn 07 - Mariage offer to Elena Peres (declined).
Turn 09 - Ana de Coco dies of old age at 61 years old.
Turn 12 - King Fernan dies of old age at 63 years old. Esteban is crowned King. Roy Peres becomes the heir.
Turn 14 - Mariage offer to Elena Peres (declined).
Turn 18 - Mariage offer to Elena Peres (declined).
Turn 23 - Mariage offer to Elena Peres (declined).
Turn 28 - A boy (Pero Peres) is born of Esteban(49) and Gracia(49).
Turn 29 - Mariage offer to Elena Peres (declined).
Turn 32 - Mariage offer to Elena Peres (declined).
Turn 34 - Mariage offer to Elena Peres (declined).
Turn 35 - Mariage offer to Elena Peres (declined).
Turn 38 - Mariage offer to Elena Peres (declined).
Turn 42 - Mariage offer to Elena Peres (declined).
Turn 44 - Mariage offer to Elena Peres (declined).
Turn 46 - Mariage offer to Elena Peres (declined).
Turn 48 - Mariage offer to Elena Peres (declined).
Turn 49 - Elena Peres is 40 years old. She retires as a nun.
Turn 51 - King Esteban dies of old age at 61 years old. Roy Peres is crowned King. There is no heir.
Turn 51 - A candidate for adoption is offered to King Roy (declined).
Turn 52 - A candidate for adoption is offered to King Roy (declined).
Turn 53 - A candidate for adoption is offered to King Roy (declined).
Turn 54 - A candidate for adoption is offered to King Roy (declined).
Turn 55 - Gracia Sanches dies of old age at 65 years old.
Turn 59 - Coming of Age: Pero Peres. He becomes the heir.
Turn 61 - Marriage offer to King Roy (declined).
Turn 66 - Marriage offer to King Roy (declined).
Turn 76 - Marriage offer to King Roy (declined).
Turn 89 - Marriage offer to King Roy (declined).
Turn 90 - Marriage offer to King Roy (declined).
Turn 92 - King Roy dies of old age at 60 years old. Pero is crowned King. There is no heir.
Turn 92 - A candidate for adoption is offered to King Pero (declined).
Turn 93 - A candidate for adoption is offered to King Pero (declined).
Turn 94 - A candidate for adoption is offered to King Pero (declined).
Turn 95 - A candidate for adoption is offered to King Pero (declined).
Turn 96 - A candidate for adoption is offered to King Pero (declined).
Turn 97 - Marriage offer to King Pero (declined).
Turn 98 - A candidate for adoption is offered to King Pero (declined).
Turn 99 - A candidate for adoption is offered to King Pero (declined).

This is the family tree after turn 99:


Interesting Facts:
1) Roy Peres is never offered a bride while his aunt Elena was unmarried.
2) On turn 51, with two settlements and only one general, King Roy is being offered adoption candidates four turns in a row, then it suddenly stops, even though there is still only one general.
3) On turn 92, with two settlements and only one general, King Pero is being offered adoption candidates five turns in a row, and 7 turns out of 8.
4) Candidates for adoption may appear with unmarried family members. (theory #3 proven false)
5) There is never two of any of these events in a single turn: Adoption/marriage offer.
6) Pero Peres was never offered a bride while his big brother Roy was not married.

New theories arise:

4) The game will not present a bride to a general if you have an unmarried princess.
5) The game will always try to marry your oldest general first.
6) When the number of generals is lower than the number of settlements, you will receive candidates for adoptions.
7) You cannot have a marriage offer and a candidate for adoption on the same turn. A marriage offer has priority.

Theory #2 is obsolete by #4. Theory #3 is proven false.