Rome (Play_Test), H/H, RTW.exe

[Aurelius_TL]

Note: Images will be posted later.

I will update this thread approx. every 10-years in my campaign. Just wanted to get this prepped in case I make it to 546 AUC tonight (currently at work).

542 AUC - Summer
Italy is steadily getting back under my control. I now have 14 cities from the original 15 at campaign start. Hannibal has been defeated and his remaining army’s city is under siege by my forces. The Capua rebelling was only successful in recruiting another city, in this case Reghion, to its aid. Reghion sent a minor rebel force to siege a nearby royalist city, but failed. My legions defeated the rebel scum and with Reghion loyal again I’m currently sieging Capua. Macedonia’s forces have begun moving against me in Greece. They are currently attacking my only city in the Greece province. After the rebelling in Capua is suppressed, my legions will be sent to reinforce that province in Greece.

Meanwhile, the Free People’s armies have conducted hit and run raids on my Italian cities. None have been truly successful, but they are annoying to say the least. The roman city to the west near Spain has been left untouched by enemy forces and the governor is currently supervising infrastructure building construction.

Feedback:
I’m enjoying the battles as they seem to last a longer duration than the ones in RS 1.6. You guys seemed to have found a pretty good balance in the unit stats. It almost feels like the battles I had in SPQR so congrats on that! Financially my empire is getting by just fine. I’ve been receiving the cash boost from the scripted Capua rebellion every turn as expected. However, I feel that the amount could be adjusted downward somewhat say like, 10 to 15k less than what it currently is.

The empire wide rebellion I experienced in SPQR left my coffers in the negative for years so the cash boost in RSII is quite appreciative. But fighting the Capua rebellion seems a lot easier than maybe intended. Perhaps getting a little less cash per turn (from the script) will make the impact of the rebellion more serious. I remember struggling greatly to pull out of the red / negative when half of my empire (15 cities) turned to aid the rebels in SPQR. Taxes were pushed to the limits and legions were disbanded in order to relieve financial stress from the empire. But I still needed to maintain a sufficient army to have a fighting chance vs. the roman rebels and the Gauls. In the end, once the last rebel city fell I was so exhausted from the entire ordeal. Come to find out after digging in the campaign script files, there were more rebellions to be had… 6 to 7 more in fact! I gave up trying to further my progress in that campaign as it became tiresome.

From what I understand, RSII will have the Capua rebellion and then another empire rebellion later in the campaign right? I would recommend just having the one rebellion and be done with it. But make it difficult enough to recover from financially, similar to SPQR. Pretty much stretching the player’s campaign management, battlefield tactics, etc. to the max. Implementing multiple rebellions of that magnitude will only make the gameplay seem more of a chore / busywork in my opinion. Taking away the fun and only making the player dread completing the next turn. No way in hell was I going to do it all over again 6 more times! Lol.

[dvk901]

I agree with that. A couple random rebellions is great, and increases the challenge. But more would make it seem like you were trying to script the player to death.

[Revan The Great]

I enjoyed the first scripted rebellion on turn 3 or whatever, and I'd probably enjoy a few more as well. Many times I feel that when playing as Rome Italy itself is very insulated, and protected from any conflict and these scripted rebellions kind of make things more interesting on the home-front. They also undermine your economy when important cities like Capua go over to the rebels.

My personal recommendation is that you go ahead and script rebellions for the three or four historical occurrences (ex. Rebel Italians w/ Hannibal, Spartacus, maybe Sulla/Pompey/Marc Antony) and then there should be a sort of trigger that might spawn additional, non historical rebellions on a regional basis. I think that a big mistake made is making rebelling cities seem random, and just dot around the map here and there spontaneously - instead I think that when a rebellion occurs in, say Syracuse, then the rest of Sicily gets like a 90% chance of also going into rebellion. That way it's not a matter of raising a half-dozen units from each of the surrounding cities to crush the rebellion, you actually have to ship troops in and take a serious blow to your economy in the meantime. Rebellions would be more hurtful, more involved, and frankly more fun.

Quashing a few errant cities is boring, but having to plan and execute a campaign against some pretender 'Emperor' in Sicily, or Spain, or wherever would be very interesting.

[Aurelius_TL]

A Spartacus rebellion would be nice, like mentioned by Revan. If you add some story to each rebellion like the Capua one (an event pop-up) that would make it worth while to get through...

[rory o'kane]

We have no slave/gladiator type units for Spartacus' rebellion to use. Still, I think a few local revolts turned into provincial secession would be cool (cf. Quintus Sertorius in Spain, mid-1st century BC).

[tone]

Interesting and thanks for the feedback. There's no financial support during the Capua rebellion - the scripted support is only during the main rebellion later on in the game.

[Aurelius_TL]

Interesting and thanks for the feedback. There's no financial support during the Capua rebellion - the scripted support is only during the main rebellion later on in the game.

Something is odd then. I was getting around 30 to 40k gold on top of my normal income and it wasn't showing in my financial tab either. This was and is still happening when Capua rebelled along with Reghion. I'll post a shot when I get home tonight for you to see.

Unless of course you're just testing to see if the scripted money boost works so you added it to the Capua rebellion to speed up the testing?

[dvk901]

It could be that the loss of those settlements is actually boosting your economy. Sometimes, a region can be a drag on your finances, and being relieved of it gets you more money. That's all I can think of.

[tone]

Good spot, Aurelius. My coding wasn't tight enough in the script to exclude the situation that occurs in the Capua rebellion, as I'd written it before we included that and had forgotten that that would need addressing....interesting that noone has spotted that before. It'll certainly make the start of the campaign tougher.

Have just uploaded the changes. Please let me know whether this fixes things.

[Aurelius_TL]

Good spot, Aurelius. My coding wasn't tight enough in the script to exclude the situation that occurs in the Capua rebellion, as I'd written it before we included that and had forgotten that that would need addressing....interesting that noone has spotted that before. It'll certainly make the start of the campaign tougher.

Have just uploaded the changes. Please let me know whether this fixes things.

Sure will. I thought it might have been too easy of a recovery that's why I asked. I'm restarting a new campaign and will report here in a few hours. This should be interesting...

[rory o'kane]

Good work, gents!
Tone, I was wondering, would it be possible in the case of a local rebellion in say, Germania, for the Roman rebels to be automatically allied with the Cimbri using forced diplomacy? I.e. the Roman Rebels ally with the player's enemies, so you can't just sit back and hope the AI deals with the rebels, in fact, it makes them more dangerous ( cf. Germanic tribesmen from East of the Rhine joining the Batavian revolt, Quintus Sertorius using mostly Spanish troops against Pompey, even Quintus Labienus leading a joint Romano-Parthian army into Syria against the Second Triumvirate of Marc Anthony, Octavian, and Lepidus, with some success before being crushed by the Roman counteroffensive)! I know we can't necessarily GIVE them the units (or could we?), but it still makes sense that the player should deal with the revolt directly, or lose the outlying regions of his empire to his rivals AND his long term enemies... what say you?

[Aurelius_TL]

Campaign restart with latest Capua rebellion update:

536 AUC - Summer

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Faction Overview:


Finances with post adjusting of city tax levels to happy (green faces):


Vs. Hannibal, Part 1:


Defeat vs. Hannibal:

536 AUC - Winter

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Finances:

537 AUC - Summer

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Cities undersiege:


Vs. Hannibal, Part 2:


Victory vs. Hannibal:


Death of a roman general:


Besieging Genoa:


Genoa captured and Faction Overview:


Arverni offer truce during end turn of 537 AUC - Summer:

537 AUC - Winter

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Capua and Crotona only cities to rebel and Finances overview. Looks like the bonus money script is fixed :


Loyalist cities revert to auto-manage:


Finances overview post adjusting of city tax levels to happy (green faces):

To be continued...
I will post more pics later of how the Capua rebellion plays out, including the finances overview.

[tone]

Excellent - thanks.

[Aurelius_TL]

Hey Tone,

Question & Suggestion: Concerning the bonus cash script for when the "later" empire rebellion kicks in... Is there a limit as to how long the duration of the cash support is? For example, before the Capua rebellion fix I would continue to receive that support cash every turn that Capua and any other cities were still under Roman Rebel control. My options were to suppress the rebellion quickly or extend it to reap in the cash support script. Now while it would make sense to extend the rebellion (ie. don't attack them or let them take more cities) to gain more cash from the script for myself, wouldn't that be cheating though?

Do you have something setup that terminates the cash script after a certain amount of turns / years even if a rebellion is still in progress? Having a finite end to the script will pressure the player to take immediate action against the roman rebels. It'll be a compromise between getting a nice benefit (extra cash) and a consequence (your coffers will hit negatives if you ignore them).

Also, would it be possible to add some info as to why the player is suddenly getting an influx of cash (doesn't show up in the Financial tab). An event pop-up comes to mind... perhaps something along the lines of Proscription? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proscription)

[tone]

Good thoughts, though I have no idea how to implement pop ups.

[Aurelius_TL]

Good thoughts, though I have no idea how to implement pop ups.

It could be similar to how the pop-ups appear just before the Capua rebellion begins. An informative warning to the player, etc. I wrote up a short description of how the money support script event could read like:

Proscription!

Enemies of the Roman Empire have stirred a massive uprising across the entire expanse of roman ruled lands. The loss of numerous vital cities and provinces in addition to maintaining legions on multiple fronts has caused a significant strain on Rome’s treasury. A decree of condemnation to death or banishment has now been set in motion to restore Rome of the riches she desperately needs. Proscribed enemies of the state shall be removed of their titles and property. Wealth acquired from this process of proscription will be crucial in aiding the Empire through this critical period.

[dvk901]

What to say isn't the issue, it's how to make the game say it.

I'm with Tone in having no clue how to create a 'historical event' (which is what the message is you see before the Capua rebellion) that would pop up when the huge rebellion occurs. The 'Revolts in Italy' message is actually just a converted 'Greek Logic' historical event that conveniently fit the rebellion.

Now, that said, I would offer this idea. I imagine the faction leader is getting some kind of trait during the big rebellion that triggers the cash supplement, and no doubt it is currently, or intended to be a hidden trait. BUT, we could un-hide this trait, add a 'gain_message' to it, and the text of the gain message and the trait itself could say:

Proscription!

Enemies of the Roman Empire have stirred a massive uprising across the entire expanse of roman ruled lands. The loss of numerous vital cities and provinces in addition to maintaining legions on multiple fronts has caused a significant strain on Rome’s treasury. A decree of condemnation to death or banishment has now been set in motion to restore Rome of the riches she desperately needs. Proscribed enemies of the state shall be removed of their titles and property. Wealth acquired from this process of proscription will be crucial in aiding the Empire through this critical period.

It kinda fits, actually, because it would be the 'Dictator' that would enact this measure anyway. And with the gain message it would show up in the National Annoucements dialoge that pops up when a character gets a trait. Thoughts?

[Aurelius_TL]

Aye, I had no idea that implementing an historical event was that difficult. In that case, your trait idea would be perfect! And yes, it does makes sense that the Dictator / Caesar should have the trait. What would the trait be called? Proscription? Proscriber? Proscription Declarer?

[tone]

That would work. I'd go for "Proscription".

Now just going back to these Roman units......here are the 3 skins that use the evocati/ roman early legion / praetorian model. DVK can I check with you how we'll run this? Presumably the evocati will use the same skin as the early legions??? and the yellow shield will go to the rebel legion for the non-Roman campaign? or something different?

From left: early Praetorian; roman rebel???; roman early legion

[dvk901]

My only intention was to make this change for the Roman Campaign...in fact, it can ONLY be for that campaign because making the Free barbs the 'Roman Rebels' gave us two slots in EDU. So I had no intention of changing anything else.

The Evocati and the Roman Legionary would have to use the same texture..yes. They are just going to switch names. We could use the middle unit as a Roman Rebel version of the Legionary, yes. But it seems unlikely to me that a Roman player would reach the rebellion and still be using these units.

Can you also tell me which trait it is that should be described as 'Proscription'?