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  1. #1
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Aliens... Bad

    Stay away according to hawking

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7107207.ece

    THE aliens are out there and Earth had better watch out, at least according to Stephen Hawking. He has suggested that extraterrestrials are almost certain to exist — but that instead of seeking them out, humanity should be doing all it that can to avoid any contact.

    The suggestions come in a new documentary series in which Hawking, one of the world’s leading scientists, will set out his latest thinking on some of the universe’s greatest mysteries.

    Alien life, he will suggest, is almost certain to exist in many other parts of the universe: not just in planets, but perhaps in the centre of stars or even floating in interplanetary space.

    Hawking’s logic on aliens is, for him, unusually simple. The universe, he points out, has 100 billion galaxies, each containing hundreds of millions of stars. In such a big place, Earth is unlikely to be the only planet where life has evolved.

    “To my mathematical brain, the numbers alone make thinking about aliens perfectly rational,” he said. “The real challenge is to work out what aliens might actually be like.”

    The answer, he suggests, is that most of it will be the equivalent of microbes or simple animals — the sort of life that has dominated Earth for most of its history.

    One scene in his documentary for the Discovery Channel shows herds of two-legged herbivores browsing on an alien cliff-face where they are picked off by flying, yellow lizard-like predators. Another shows glowing fluorescent aquatic animals forming vast shoals in the oceans thought to underlie the thick ice coating Europa, one of the moons of Jupiter.

    Such scenes are speculative, but Hawking uses them to lead on to a serious point: that a few life forms could be intelligent and pose a threat. Hawking believes that contact with such a species could be devastating for humanity.

    He suggests that aliens might simply raid Earth for its resources and then move on: “We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn’t want to meet. I imagine they might exist in massive ships, having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonise whatever planets they can reach.”

    He concludes that trying to make contact with alien races is “a little too risky”. He said: “If aliens ever visit us, I think the outcome would be much as when Christopher Columbus first landed in America, which didn’t turn out very well for the Native Americans.”

    The completion of the documentary marks a triumph for Hawking, now 68, who is paralysed by motor neurone disease and has very limited powers of communication. The project took him and his producers three years, during which he insisted on rewriting large chunks of the script and checking the filming.

    John Smithson, executive producer for Discovery, said: “He wanted to make a programme that was entertaining for a general audience as well as scientific and that’s a tough job, given the complexity of the ideas involved.”

    Hawking has suggested the possibility of alien life before but his views have been clarified by a series of scientific breakthroughs, such as the discovery, since 1995, of more than 450 planets orbiting distant stars, showing that planets are a common phenomenon.

    So far, all the new planets found have been far larger than Earth, but only because the telescopes used to detect them are not sensitive enough to detect Earth-sized bodies at such distances.

    Another breakthrough is the discovery that life on Earth has proven able to colonise its most extreme environments. If life can survive and evolve there, scientists reason, then perhaps nowhere is out of bounds.

    Hawking’s belief in aliens places him in good scientific company. In his recent Wonders of the Solar System BBC series, Professor Brian Cox backed the idea, too, suggesting Mars, Europa and Titan, a moon of Saturn, as likely places to look.

    Similarly, Lord Rees, the astronomer royal, warned in a lecture earlier this year that aliens might prove to be beyond human understanding.

    “I suspect there could be life and intelligence out there in forms we can’t conceive,” he said. “Just as a chimpanzee can’t understand quantum theory, it could be there are aspects of reality that are beyond the capacity of our brains.”
    Can't say he doesn't make sense.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  2. #2
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    He does make sense actually, I didnt think about this before he brought it up but it makes sense. Comparing it to our encounter with the native Americans. We wiped them out for our benefit or to settle. If Aliens came here with the intention of settling then there is every bit of a chance that they would segregate us or wipe us out. But on the other hand if they are socially evolved then they may only come to trade or get to know us, maybe have a beer or two.





    Here is the video which is talked about in the article.
    Last edited by MathiasOfAthens; April 26, 2010 at 08:47 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    “To my mathematical brain, the numbers alone make thinking about aliens perfectly rational,” he said. “The real challenge is to work out what aliens might actually be like.”


    To anyone slightly good at basic probability, thinking about aliens is perfectly normal, one does not need to be a math genius to figure out the concept of the Drake equation.

    Hawkings has gone a little off the deep end as of late, not in this statement but some others (which I forget exactly what he said, but basically LOOK AT ME type of thing).

    Really I don't see whats so profound in this, its only what just about EVERY science fiction writer has been saying since about 1945 when the concept of space flight become plausible and the extent of the Universe became more clear.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    Makes sense. But I think they're gonna pick us up anyway so better to be prepared for the worst.

    Start stockpiling your nukes, gentlemen.


  5. #5
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    I think he's a little overboard with the ID4 scenario but yea. That's one of the things I like about Scifi, no matter how geeky the subject can get, it's always within the realm of probability. And if we are willing to wipe out each other why wouldn't aliens be? And the reverse of that question, would we be willing to wipe out any kind of alien we came across?

    An Alien a billion light years away from here probably took a dump while I typed that.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  6. #6
    cenkiss's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    Earth may end without even contacting any other kind of other living being.Just like those stars that die millions of light years away.

  7. #7
    Jom's Avatar A Place of Greater Safety
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    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    This sort of thinking isn't terribly new as Phier pointed out. I don't even see what makes Hawking so qualified to comment on the likely behaviour of aliens; presumably an anthropologist would be much more appropriate.

    "For what it’s worth: it’s never too late to be whoever you want to be. I hope you live a life you’re proud of, and if you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again."

  8. #8
    Trax's Avatar It's a conspiracy!
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    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    Nah, we are living in a computer simulation and the programmers just forgot to put the aliens in.


  9. #9

    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    No. GOD only created man!


  10. #10

    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    A significant difference between an Alien and Columbus is that Earth may be far less hospitable for the Alien than Cuba was for Columbus. Unless said Alien is really good in doing extensive terraformation stunts, which is likely since, at the moment, we are propably closer to terraforming Venus (on which we have a quite a clue how to do) than to colonise whatever planets Alpha Centauri (likely none, double star system are likely not very hospitable) may have.

    If I would be an Alien, I would propably study Human biochemistry and create a really addictive drug, afterwards use supply of that drug to stay in control without having to physically exterminate 6 billion individuals (which may not be that easy).

  11. #11

    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Mightypeon View Post
    A significant difference between an Alien and Columbus is that Earth may be far less hospitable for the Alien than Cuba was for Columbus. Unless said Alien is really good in doing extensive terraformation stunts, which is likely since, at the moment, we are propably closer to terraforming Venus (on which we have a quite a clue how to do) than to colonise whatever planets Alpha Centauri (likely none, double star system are likely not very hospitable) may have.

    If I would be an Alien, I would propably study Human biochemistry and create a really addictive drug, afterwards use supply of that drug to stay in control without having to physically exterminate 6 billion individuals (which may not be that easy).
    This assumes that aliens have evolved with independent minds.

    There are many possibilities.

    You could have aliens who operated like Ants in which you have a small leadership cast or queen and the rest are essentially enslaved (drones) which are controlled by chemical signals. A species operating like this would be extremely efficient and very brutal.

    You could also have a sort of interconnected hive mind, in which the minds of all that species ( or at least large groups) are connected by either chemical, technological or telepathy. A hive mind would operate much like group think which is extremely dangerous. It essentially erases free will as those who operate in a hive mind will do what is best for the group.


    the best we can hope for is that any other species is like us...otherwise the results are probably not too good.


    as far as aliens existing, I have no doubt in my mind. Probability dictates that they absolutely exist. The sheer size of the universe makes it impossible for them not to. Hell there are probably many intelligent alien civilizations just in the milky way itself, not even counting other galaxies.

    The leap of faith it takes to believe in ing ET is the analogous to the leap it takes to believe in the existence of God.
    its pretty egotistical to believe that only place live evolved in the universe was on earth. In fact you would have to prove that Earth is so unique that these conditions do not occur anywhere else. Where life can exist, it will exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendo1231 View Post
    I agree with him. I mean really with just an elementary knowledge about biology, chemistry, physics, physical science, astronomy, and mathematics combined with logic, it's only reasonable to conclude that there is at least ONE other form of life out there in the universe- nevermind the Milky Way. But the existence of humans, especially with capability of space travel, is only a speck considering the age of the Earth. The probability of meeting another life form who is able to travel in space at the VERY same time is unlikely, provided the age of their solar system is almost identical or extremely close to ours.
    no its unlikely due to the vastness of our universe.



    Quote Originally Posted by Friendo1231 View Post
    It's not impossible, but given that this universe is only 14 billion years old, and WE as a singular species have had to go through 4.5 billion years worth of change to get this far, doesn't it seem like this would probably be the case in most places? That most are not as advanced as we would like to think? It seems to me most aliens we will find once we begin exploration are probably going to be lower forms; not necessarily unintelligent, but quite possibly more primitive than us, if not exactly on our level. Anyway, human imagination and the quest for power will kill us all long before humans will meet extraterrestrials. It's just part of our nature and always has been. Indeed we see it in our closest relatives, chimpanzees, all the time. They like violence. We like it, too. We're just barbaric.
    uhg. Humanity ( homo sapiens) are only a few hundred thousand years old, human civilization is only 10,000 years old ,and human space travel is only 50 years old. Considering this, even if a species had developed civilization before us, and lets say they have had space travel for 10,000 years prior to us....well that is a very big head start. Life has existed on earth for something like 3 billion years. Just look at dinosaurs, some species existed for millions of years....some of the like sharks and crocs are still with us. To think that most life in the universe would exist at our technological level is absurd. Probability dictates that not only is life going to exist but that it will exist at different levels.

    Conditions dictate evolution, we are just as likely to run into aliens who are more primitive then we are as aliens who are godlike in their technology.
    Last edited by Gelgoog; April 26, 2010 at 06:02 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    I think it's a little hasty to say that any alien visitors will be hostile to us. In fact the only situation I can imagine them being hostile is if they wanted to enslave us, or just kill us because extermination is their national pass-time. There's nothing on our planet that they wouldn't be able to easily get else place, and any war happy alien race will have likely killed themselves off before they even made it into space.

    That being said, it's still a vast universe we live in, and there's no telling what kinds of alien life might exist out there and how they might react to our presence.



  13. #13

    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    Quote Originally Posted by scheuch13 View Post
    This assumes that aliens have evolved with independent minds.

    There are many possibilities.

    You could have aliens who operated like Ants in which you have a small leadership cast or queen and the rest are essentially enslaved (drones) which are controlled by chemical signals. A species operating like this would be extremely efficient and very brutal.

    You could also have a sort of interconnected hive mind, in which the minds of all that species ( or at least large groups) are connected by either chemical, technological or telepathy. A hive mind would operate much like group think which is extremely dangerous. It essentially erases free will as those who operate in a hive mind will do what is best for the group.


    the best we can hope for is that any other species is like us...otherwise the results are probably not too good.


    as far as aliens existing, I have no doubt in my mind. Probability dictates that they absolutely exist. The sheer size of the universe makes it impossible for them not to. Hell there are probably many intelligent alien civilizations just in the milky way itself, not even counting other galaxies.



    its pretty egotistical to believe that only place live evolved in the universe was on earth. In fact you would have to prove that Earth is so unique that these conditions do not occur anywhere else. Where life can exist, it will exist.



    no its unlikely due to the vastness of our universe.





    uhg. Humanity ( homo sapiens) are only a few hundred thousand years old, human civilization is only 10,000 years old ,and human space travel is only 50 years old. Considering this, even if a species had developed civilization before us, and lets say they have had space travel for 10,000 years prior to us....well that is a very big head start. Life has existed on earth for something like 3 billion years. Just look at dinosaurs, some species existed for millions of years....some of the like sharks and crocs are still with us. To think that most life in the universe would exist at our technological level is absurd. Probability dictates that not only is life going to exist but that it will exist at different levels.

    Conditions dictate evolution, we are just as likely to run into aliens who are more primitive then we are as aliens who are godlike in their technology.
    I believe that inventions need a significant amount of individualism. Efficient yes, creative propably not.
    I also believe that each planet dominating species will have the choice of either reaching a steady state on their planet or reach another planet. I believe that we should strive for a steady state on our own world, while trieing to pursue space travel.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Mightypeon View Post
    A significant difference between an Alien and Columbus is that Earth may be far less hospitable for the Alien than Cuba was for Columbus. Unless said Alien is really good in doing extensive terraformation stunts, which is likely since, at the moment, we are propably closer to terraforming Venus (on which we have a quite a clue how to do) than to colonise whatever planets Alpha Centauri (likely none, double star system are likely not very hospitable) may have.

    If I would be an Alien, I would propably study Human biochemistry and create a really addictive drug, afterwards use supply of that drug to stay in control without having to physically exterminate 6 billion individuals (which may not be that easy).
    And then, if they don't need more money make us all overdose! Woohooo!
    Have you ever seen Dirty Harry Guns and money are best diplomacy
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  15. #15
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    I think doubting that there are aliens *somewhere* out there is simply a misunderstanding of the mathematical reasoning behind that logical assumption. There are 100 billion stars in the milky way alone. There are probably just as many and possibly more planets, and our counting of them is only limited by our ability to detect them with current technology. Even if there's a one in a hundred million chance that life could form on any single one of them (hell, we don't even know exactly how random proteins got to combining and replicating. Perhaps it's not so miraculous, maybe we got lucky.), that is still a not insignificant number to consider.

    However, as has been stated, the likelihood we'll ever run into any aliens is perhaps even lower, because, well, space is freaking huge.

    I did see the documentary and I agree with hawking's points about contact: if we're stumbled upon (and I really mean stumbled upon) by anything capable of intelligent thought that's capable of crossing that great void in any length of time, we would be completely out of our league.

  16. #16
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    Quote Originally Posted by John I Tzimisces View Post
    I think doubting that there are aliens *somewhere* out there is simply a misunderstanding of the mathematical reasoning behind that logical assumption. There are 100 billion stars in the milky way alone. There are probably just as many and possibly more planets, and our counting of them is only limited by our ability to detect them with current technology. Even if there's a one in a hundred million chance that life could form on any single one of them (hell, we don't even know exactly how random proteins got to combining and replicating. Perhaps it's not so miraculous, maybe we got lucky.), that is still a not insignificant number to consider.

    However, as has been stated, the likelihood we'll ever run into any aliens is perhaps even lower, because, well, space is freaking huge.

    I did see the documentary and I agree with hawking's points about contact: if we're stumbled upon (and I really mean stumbled upon) by anything capable of intelligent thought that's capable of crossing that great void in any length of time, we would be completely out of our league.
    On our own planet there have been Dinosaurs and now mammals among other things. In one way you can say the miracle of life happen twice on our planet. Those are pretty good odds.

  17. #17
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    On our own planet there have been Dinosaurs and now mammals among other things. In one way you can say the miracle of life happen twice on our planet. Those are pretty good odds.
    well, that's really just evolution and natural selection and all that good stuff. Dinosaurs went extinct, and mammals were able to undergo adaptive radiation to fill their void.
    It's not like poof and then there were dinosaurs, and poof and then weren't any dinosaurs but now there's mammals. (I'm simplifying things, not trying to bring you down or whatnot)

  18. #18

    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    Addendum: For any society to function, the individuals composing the society will need a certain amount of empathy in order to limit intra societal violence. With a lack of Empathy/Solidarity etc. the society will likely break down before it can reach a level that allows it to establish space flight. Given how close mankind has come towards such a collapse, one may even expect that a space faring civilisation will have more empathy and less internal violence than mankind currently has.
    Of course, wether applieing to an Aliens empathy will be succesfull is a different question.

  19. #19
    gambit's Avatar Gorak
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    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    It's not too far off to think they might just kill us and be done with it, but theres nothing we can do about it now. Mankind has been sending radio waves out into space for years and years, likelihood is they'll reach aliens eventually, and past that, the only direction of growth for mankind is out into space anyway.

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    Last edited by gambit; April 26, 2010 at 12:39 PM.
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  20. #20
    gambit's Avatar Gorak
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    Default Re: Aliens... Bad

    well unless you have an umbrella I suppose
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter S. Thompson
    You better take care of me, Lord. If you dont.. you're gonna have me on your hands

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