Rebel of Jesusland
Life Without Parole for Juveniles in US - Human Rights Violation
http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/...wop/report.pdf
Here is a report from Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International on life sentences without parole for juveniles who committ serious crimes. I am kinda shocked that the US is almost alone in this.
SecureROM is stupid....
Comes Rei Militaris
I suppose it depends upon what you consider prison to be. A balance needs to be struck between retribution and rehibilitation. I have my views - which will inevitably be considered liberal but most will work out what I think of laws such as these.
From a British point of view, over the years we have had children who have murdered other children. Each time this happens there is a public baying for blood - quite understandable as the crimes are hideous, but the law, thankfully, rises above raw emotion. Recently two young men were released, they had killed a toddler (with a railway iron bar, I think). This happened when they were 10 and 11. Both have now been released (and renamed). Undoubtedly the victim's parent's despise the decision (I do not know this, it is a supposition) but this happened when they were children - and I'm sorry, but a child does not fully understnd the consequences of its actions. After a suitable prison term, with the goal of bringing them back into society, is the just result.
Back in the sixties (or maybe fifties) a child was murdered by a girl. She has since gone through the same processes poorly outlined above and has now got a family and is acontributing member of society. She truly regrets her actions - the biggest punishment possible.
We do have a problem with balancing retribution and rehibilitation, few countries have it correct (can it be correct?)...
Darkness is the light
Didn't you know? Amnesty is just a partisan political organization; their ideology doesn't let them utter anything else than these unfounded and baseless antiamerican accusations. Says Dick Cheney.
And when Amnesty has seized power, you'll see what kind of godless communist tyranny they will create!
They're in league with Howard Dean and the Democrat-liberal-taxachusetts-gay-communist-socialist-terrorist-anti_american-obstructionistsOriginally Posted by PacSubCom
Comes Rei Militaris
Dick Cheney is a marvellous man. A true Patriot and an example of wholesome goodness in every sense! I won't mention his links with Halliburton and their rampant profiteering in Iraq. Oh no...
imb39 you goddamn terrorist im going to report you to the Australian governments national security hotline. Soon our federal police will be locking you up without any right to legal counsel. Theyre so good that nobody will know your missing or for that matter ever existed. That'll teach you for mocking the great patriotic free leader of democracy and liberty Dick Cheney.
"In bourgeois society capital is independent and has individuality, while the living person is dependent and has no individuality." - Karl Marx on CapitalismUnder the patronage of the venerable Marshal Qin. Proud member of the house of Sybian.
Proud member of the Australian-New Zealand Beer Appreciation Society (ANZBAS)
Comes Rei Militaris
Ahem. He's no leader of mine; that's Bush, Leader of the Free World - but this is off topic!
Bow to ME!!!
those 2 British 'kids' are living in Australia now.
Exotic Slave - Spook 153, Barbarian Turncoat - Drugpimp, Catamite - Invoker 47
Drunken Uncle - Wicked, Priest of Jupiter - Guderian
Under the patronage of El-Sib Why? ...... Because Siblesz sent meProud member of the Australian-New Zealand Beer Appreciation Society (ANZBAS?)
Dux Limitis
You mean you are shocked very few other countries give life sentances to kids?
Or do you mean you are shocked the US is one of the few violators.
I think it's sick to effectively take away the life of kids.
They are kids, they can't fully understand the consequances of their actions.
Plus: kids who commit those horrible crimes are almost always being mistreated by their parents.
But I don't think America cares about reports from Amnesty international.
If other countries (Iraq, Iran etc) mistreat criminals it's a crime against humanity, if America does the same it's just liberal whining to complain about it.
Rebel of Jesusland
kinda both
SecureROM is stupid....
Civitate
Dont see what the big deal is and with real human rights violations in the world what Im suprised at is that AI is wasting time on this. Its not like every child offender faces life in prison but it should be and is an avaiable option. Lets say Columbine kids didnt kill themselves...do you think they should be on the verge of being released now? Put limits on it for violent crimes (anyone even know if that is the case anyway?) but to abolish it as AI is suggesting? No thanks.
Comes Rei Militaris
Well if AI only concentratged on this issue, then yes it would be wrong - but AI highlights injustice around the world.
The children released in Britain were done so after being judged safe to enter society. The Columbine murderers probably wouldn't have got out as their crimes were so dreadful - but that is so extreme (how many times has it ever happened?). What we are talking about are many children locked up based upon crimes when they are incapable of adult raiotnal - they are being judged as adults and many will serve out the remainder of their lives in jail - that means not once in heir adult lives will they taste freedom, not once. Is this reasonable?
Just because thew numbers involved are relatively few - it does not make it a 'waste of time.'
Civitate
Well US laws would have to be rewritten, it would be tough to hold say the Columbine 2 indefinately without a sentence to allow it. It is one of the major flaws we face with sex offenders where we have no alternative but to set them free even if they are clearly not 'ready' for society. Im not for tossing every kid who screws up in jail, far from it but I dont think it should be abolished it should be there to use under extreme cases otherwise we'll be stuck with having to release people who become of age. It is after all rather difficult to retain in custody Americans simply because it would be in our best interest to do so. Want to revamp laws for underage crimes, sure thing go for it probably the best solution but that needs to be done first.
Civitate
My wife is a probation officer for juveniles at our local Juvenile Justice Center in the county courts. Let me tell you, these kids are bad. Horrible. Disrespectful. I could go on and on. And the parents aren't much better either. These people want the courts to punish their kids for them. How a 38 year old mother can't control her 14 year old daughter is beyond me. And these same parents are in court with their kids all the time.
As far as the life without parole, it sounds a bit harsh. If it were murder or rape I could understand, but anything else doesn't call for life in jail.
Darkness is the light
There was a report about this guy who got a life sentence (with parole after 35 years or so). When he was 13 or 14, he went with his 'friends' to rob a house. Then the tenants came back. The two of his older friends shot them while he was cowering under a table. Shortly after his conviction, the laws were changed in a way that he would not have gotten any parole at all, if the crime had been perpetrated after.
Now he's 27, and he does not think he'll ever come out.
Good Matey
I visited a juvenile center while I was earning my Criminal Justice degree. Sure, a lot of the kids are horrible. But I felt sorry for most of them. The majority of those kids grew up in abusive or neglectful homes. Life in prison for anything less than murder or rape is too heavy.
The US justice system is screwed up through and through. You're given two years for forcible rape, but 25 years for drug possession. The reason I decided not to become a cop is because I would be enforcing the laws of a worthless system.
I saw an interesting piece the other day, could be 60 minutes, not sure. It was about long term sentences for drug posession. There was this case where a girl was doing 11 years for driving her addicted aunt to a place. The aunt happened to be caught while buying drugs.
Now the ironic part is that dealers that have connections with the crime oranizations get away with light sentences because they do deals, for informations and such. But these semi-inocent people have nothing to offer the DA's so they just take watherver they're given.
Morale: the true career criminals have it easier.
Dux Limitis
It's even worst.
If drug dealers know somebody in the Netherlands (anybody, doesn't mather who, just as long as he/she is Dutch) they can say he/she is the big boss.
Then America wil ask (make that demand) the Netherland to hand them over, and the Netherlands ALWAYS complies.
The smart part is: an American jury wil ALWAYS beleive the Dutchman is guilty, he is from the "land of drugs" afterall and "why would the Netherlands hand him over if he's innocent?".
So a good American attorney wil tell his Dutch client to confess, so he wil get "just" a few years in stead of 20 years or so.
Many innocent Dutch have gotten to American jails like this, and the real drug dealers are let free because of their "cooperation".
This is why I never tell my real name to Americans... just in case.
i agree, or rather: re-education.Of course it would be stupid to release people back into society if they are not ready BUT it is morally wrong to apply adult laws to children. At the end of the day it is balancing retribution with rehabilitation. When it comes to children - rehabilitation has to be the main focus.
Obviously the parents didn't do a good job educating their kids, so somebody has to re-educate them and they have normal lifes (unlike most adult criminals, who had the opportunity to choose their bahaviour)
Civitate
Yeah cause like all americans are the same, we all think you are a bunch of drug dealing sex fiends.
Lets see you go by username Erik, you use this forum...ok got enough info sending it to FBI now...This is why I never tell my real name to Americans... just in case.
Comes Rei Militaris
Murder yes robbery no
Just to go off topic a little.
Leniency is all well and good for those who don't know what they have done but are unwitting accomplices. I come from the NE UK (wallsend) and have grew up around career criminals who start at young ages and their criminal habits escalate rapidly. Gang violence is pretty bad.
One of the most prolific was the same age as me and lived nearby was dubbed spiderboy because of his knack of climbing. He is claimed to have committed hundreds of b and e (before he was 16) at one point he was found to have tunneled through an appartment building. There are hundreds more though cranking up convictions in the 100's but never getting sentenced.
I don't advocate life for kids but I think liberal thinkers inevitably end up taking things to far the other way - like the situation we have in the uk today. I would rather have a little (sometimes a lot) of injustice on the criminal side of proceedings than have courts obsessed with the rights of criminals and the victims suffering.
Peter
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
