What was the king soldier on Napoleonic battlefields?

[Invictus XII]

Well the topic title says it all, what was the king unit on a Napoleonic battlefield?

I mean what was the main force, did the light infantry, skirmishers or riflemen start to show themselves as the next greatest force. Or did the line infantry, those steady, strong walls of fire make the greatest impact.

Personally, I'm with Napoleon's opinion, that the artillery made the biggest impact, it could shot further than anything else, it made mass casulties, and it was the way war was heading, until the invention of the war plane. WWI is where artillery makes its greatest display, but it started with Napoleon.

Others may say the cavarly, but in my opinion, the cavarly was dying, you know the saying "Never bring a knife to a gun fight" that was what the cavarly was doing, yes it was frieghtning sight seeing thousands of cavarlymen charging directly at you, but the fact is the cavalry has to come into contact, where as the infantry can start taking them down 200 meters before the clash.

So what do you think was the king unit on the Napoleonic field? Light Infantry, Line Infantry, Light or Heavy Cavarly or the Artillery?

I know it also was depending on the amount of training each unit has, and their commander, but where talking about the general abilities.

[Slaytaninc]

If you limit it to type of unit, i.e Infantry, Cavalry, and Artillery, I think you'll be fine.

It's when people try to go in depth that they fail.

[43rdFoot]

I'd have to say the infantry. Artillery can cause casualties, but it doesn't make troops run. That's the job of the bayonet.

[Farnan]

Artillery. It is the King of Battle. Infantry is its queen.

"God is on the side with the best artillery." - Napoléon Bonaparte

[Slaytaninc]

Artillery. It is the King of Battle. Infantry is its queen.

"God is on the side with the best artillery." - Napoléon Bonaparte

I think you're a bit biased

(Of course, you are correct.)

[Farnan]

I think you're a bit biased

(Of course, you are correct.)

What?

I was an Infantryman once...

Anyways, the nickname for Infantry is the Queen of Battle and Artillery's is the King of Battle.

[Hanny]

Artillery. It is the King of Battle. Infantry is its queen.

Yet neither are called the arm of desicion..........

[Farnan]

Yet neither are called the arm of desicion..........

Armor are just self-propelled artillerymen who lost their way.

[Hanny]

Armor are just self-propelled artillerymen who lost their way.

#You missd the point Cavalry was the Arm of descion since feudalism and the stirup made it so, it remained the arm of descion while evolving into mechanised warfare by aplication of technology, and is still refered to as the Arm of descion while not ridding on a horse but in an AFV.

SPA is the Art form of the same evolution, they are now also part of the Arm of descion, since its inception in the 1350s or so, it evolved through technology to an important part of a field battle after being only of use in a fixed posistion, and raprdily became part of the Arm of descion when mechanised.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

#You missd the point Cavalry was the Arm of descion since feudalism and the stirup made it so, it remained the arm of descion while evolving into mechanised warfare by aplication of technology, and is still refered to as the Arm of descion while not ridding on a horse but in an AFV.

SPA is the Art form of the same evolution, they are now also part of the Arm of descion, since its inception in the 1350s or so, it evolved through technology to an important part of a field battle after being only of use in a fixed posistion, and raprdily became part of the Arm of descion when mechanised.

Cavalry was made fairly redudant by hte invention of gunpowder. They could no longer charge head first into a formation and rout it, they had to flank it or whatever while it was already engaged. It depended on the infantry.

And I if you sent an entire tank brigade of tanks with no infantry vs an infantry battalion, the infantry battalion would win.

[43rdFoot]

Can you provide a source of artillery being the primary factor in the success of a battle? Because I can think of dozens where the quality of the infantry carried the day instead.

[Farnan]

Can you provide a source of artillery being the primary factor in the success of a battle? Because I can think of dozens where the quality of the infantry carried the day instead.

Artillery is the King of Battle:

Field Artillery Creed

I am the Artillery, King of Battle! For two centuries I have kept our Nation safe, Purchasing freedom with my blood. To tyrants, I am the day of reckoning; to the suppressed, the hope for the future. Where the fighting is thick, there am I...
I am the Artillery! DEPEND ON ME!

I was there from the beginning, meeting the enemy face to face, will to will. My bleeding feet stained the snow at Valley Forge; my frozen hands pulled Washington across the Delaware. At Yorktown, the sunlight glinted from the sword and I, begrimed... saw a Nation born. Hardship... and glory I have known. At New Orleans, I fought beyond the hostile hour, showed the fury of my long rifle... and came of age. I am the Artillery! DEPEND ON ME!

Westward I pushed with wagon trains... moved an empire across the plains... extended freedom's borders and tamed the wild frontier. I am the Artillery! DEPEND ON ME!

I was with Scott at Vera Cruz... hunted the guerrilla in the mountain passes... and scaled the high plateau. The fighting was done when I ended my march many miles from the old Alamo.

From Bull Run to Appomattox, I fought and bled. Both Blue and Gray were my colors then. Two masters I served and united them strong... proved that this nation could right a wrong... and long endure. I am the Artillery! DEPEND ON ME!

I led the charge up San Juan Hill... scaled the walls of old Tientsin... and stalked the Moro in the steaming jungle still... always the vanguard, I am the Artillery!

At Chateau Thierry, first over the top, then I stood like a rock on the Marne. It was I who cracked the Hindenburg Line... in the Argonne, I broke the Kaiser's spine... and didn't come back 'till it was "over, over there." I am the Artillery! DEPEND ON ME!

A generation older at Bataan, I briefly bowed, but then I vowed to return. I assaulted the African shore... learned my lesson the hard way in the desert sands... pressed my buttons into the beach at Anzio... and bounced into Rome with determination and resolve. I am the Artillery! DEPEND ON ME!

The English channel, stout beach defenses and the hedgerows could not hold me...
I broke out at St. Lo, unbent the Bulge... vaulted the Rhine... and swarmed the Heartland. Hitler's dream and the Third Reich were dead.

In the Pacific, from island to island I hopped... hit the beaches and chopped through swamp and jungle... I set the Rising Sun. I am the Artillery! DEPEND ON ME!

In Korea, I gathered my strength around Pusan... swept across the frozen Han... outflanked the Reds at Inchon... and marched to the Yalu. Withdrew in the face of Chinese hoards in winter's deep freeze and stabilized the line at the 38th guaranteeing freedom's ring to South Korea. DEPEND ON ME!

In Vietnam, while others turned aside, I fought the longest fight, from the Central Highlands to the South China Sea I patrolled the jungle, the paddies and the sky in the bitter test that belongs to the Artillery. DEPEND ON ME!

Around the world, I stand... ever forward. Over Lebanon's sands, my guns steady aimed... and calm returned. At Berlin's gates, I scorned the Wall of Shame. I spanned the Caribbean in freedom's cause, answered humanity's call. I trod the streets of Santo Domingo to protect the innocent. In Grenada, I jumped at Salinas, and proclaimed freedom for all. My arms set a Panamanian dictator to flight and once more raised democracy's flag, In the Persian Gulf, I drew the line in the desert, called the tyrant's bluff and restored right and freedom in 100 hours. Duty called, I answered. I am the Artillery! DEPEND ON ME!

My artillery pieces... on the wings of power... keep the peace worldwide. And despots, falsely garbed in freedom's mantle, falter...and hide. My ally in the paddies and the forest...
I teach, I aid, I lead. DEPEND ON ME!

Where brave men fight... there fight I. In freedom's cause... I live, I die. From Concord Bridge to Heartbreak Ridge, from the Arctic to the Mekong Delta of Viet Nam, to the Caribbean... and onward to the Pursian Gulf... the King of Battle! DEPEND ON ME!

Infantry is the Queen of Battle:

U.S. Army Infantry Creed
I am the Infantry, I am my country's strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight-wherever, whenever. I carry Americas faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle.

I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win.

Never will I fail my country's trust. Always I fight on, through the foe, to the objective, to triumph over all. If necessary, I fight to my death.

By my steadfast courage, I have won over 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, for I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight.

I forsake not my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty.

I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever.

I am the INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!

[43rdFoot]

OK... Do you have any evidence that isn't a creed?

[Farnan]

I'm saying that Field Artillery is the King of Battle and Infantry is the Queen of Battle. Ask any artillery man or infantry man and they'll tell you that.

[Hanny]

I'm saying that Field Artillery is the King of Battle and Infantry is the Queen of Battle. Ask any artillery man or infantry man and they'll tell you that.

And a pawn can take either of them, any chess player will tell you that.

[Campioni]

The Cavalry, there was nothing more feared on the battlefield than a heavy cavalry charge.

[Farnan]

The Cavalry, there was nothing more feared on the battlefield than a heavy cavalry charge.

Except pound after pound of steel flying towards you.

[43rdFoot]

Except pound after pound of steel flying towards you.

Except that was rarely what caused a force to break. Their are accounts of infantry standing their ground after taking murderous fire, sometimes losing more than 50% casualties.

The bayonet, on the other hand, could cause troops to go running without a shot fired.

[Domen123]

The Cavalry, there was nothing more feared on the battlefield than a heavy cavalry charge.

Except pound after pound of steel flying towards you.

Lead, my friend, lead.

Trick & maneuver could overcome lead:

[Watchman]

Lead, my friend, lead.

FYI, artillery solid shot was cast iron. (Grenades too actually; grapeshot *was* lead, but then again, it was basially a bunch of musket balls...)

Trick & maneuver could overcome lead:

Aside from the movie having more fail tactics than I can be bothered to list (PROTIP: "close order" was way tighter packed than that), I don't really see what 17th-century pike-and-shot warfare has to do with discussion and where in there do you see "trick and maneuver overcoming lead".

Also, the infantry square. Case closed.