***Conserning MAARC Submissions***

[Hesus de bodemloze]

Hi there all AAR writers/readers, recently a new type of AAR writing has emerged, Video AAR making has risen from underneath the swelling earth's crust. The nanny has showed us how we can make these new creations and is eager to compete whit them in The Monthly After Action Reports Competition.

As manager of this competition i will need your voice to guide me in this difficult decision as i am not really sure what to do with it.


1. Should AAR's that contain videos be allowed in to the MAARC?

2. Should we create a new competition for this new type of AAR?

Please leave behind some tips and suggestion.

Hesus.

[LuckyLewis]

I think they should be allowed, besides if you look at Nanny's AARs, they still have writing within the post and the video itself. It's just like an AAR with pictures and writing condensed into one by a video in my opinion. Nanny's videos aren't just cinematic videos, that's the thing. They tell a story, like any other AAR.

I don't think there are enough video AARs in order for their to be a new competition, or we should atleast wait unitl the new 'Video of the Week' in the POTW/UETW board occurs, so that you can get an idea as to how popular Video making is, and perhaps even AAR videos.

[Hesus de bodemloze]

I know they still tell a story but my concern is that people will vote for them because of the video and only the video. Don't underestimate the visual impact that the video has on the AAR.

[Legio]

I don't think they should be allowed into the MAARC comps. We have the video comps for this type of thing anyway. One can submit segments of his AAR to each video poll as it pops up.

[Nanny de Bodemloze]

Sorry, but the wording in your poll is very misleading. I have only produced one "video AAR", I have most definitely NOT entered it (Debts of Honour) into the competition. What you HAVE deleted are my written AAR submissions, that have some videos in them, but they are most definitely not "video AARs".

I don't think a pure video AAR has a place in the MAARC competition...and not because it would be more popular than others, cause I don't necessarily agree with that (videos are not to everyone's taste). The only reason "Debts of Honour" has a home in the AAR area is because I couldn't find a better home, but the process to write it is the same as the AAR process. I still don't think "Debts" should be in the MAARC competition though because that is like throwing an orange into an apple contest.

That said, my other AARs have videos that augment the AAR, but that is no different than any other media that people put in, like pics and maps and such.

There are a few other very good AARs that people have written that have a small vid component as well. My entry "The Journals of John MacDonald" is not a video AAR...as much effort went into the writing as anything else. But to ban an AAR that has any video in it? Really??

[Legio]

People will always vote for whatever has the most shinies in it. We can't honestly stop people from having masterfully edited pics, and from people from voting from those guys, but this is a little much.

[Nanny de Bodemloze]

People will always vote for whatever has the most shinies in it. We can't honestly stop people from having masterfully edited pics, and from people from voting from those guys, but this is a little much.

Wow Legio. Have you actually READ any of my AARs? My writing is not the best, but I put alot of effort into it, and try not to waste a readers time. BTW...in the last MAARC, I submitted an AAR that had "shinies"...didn't get many votes (2! LOL). You know why? Because people voted for the best written AARs...better than mine. Hell, I voted for the others I think you under estimate the intelligence of the MAARC voters...the best AARs tend to win, and I haven't won anything yet. What is "a little much" about my work? My AARs are not the most popular, not the most visited on the site. Why so determined to keep me out of a competition?

"People will always vote for whatever has the most shinies in it"...that is just a very cynical statement. The people who vote in MAARC aren't your average Mudpit or Thema Devia spammers. Alot of thought is put into the votes, I believe. If people see "shinies" but no substance, they won't vote for it. Very cynical, and I am very disappointed that you hold the AAR community in so little regard.

"We can't honestly stop people from having masterfully edited pics, and from people from voting from those guys"...another very cynical statement. Why WOULD you want to stop "those guys"? The people who select the right shots, spend alot of time editing them, and then decide how they contribute to the written story are putting alot of work into their AARs, and many make for damn fine reading. What's the problem?

BTW...would it not have been better form to erase BOTH of my nominations AFTER this poll? Hey, if my fellow AAR writers think my AARs don't follow the MAARC rules (I have looked the rules over many times...can't see any violation myself, but maybe someone sees something else), then take them out. But you went ahead and removed me before consulting me or the AAR community at large. How are videos in AARs (AARs that that are mostly text) breaking rules? How can you remove my nominations without first changing the rules, or consulting the community? Very very poor form, and more than a little arbitrary.

Just to point out again, my video AAR "Debts of Honour" was NOT nominated. The 2 AARs that were, "Journals of John MacDougal" and "Tannenberg" were written AARs, with video elements. These are the ones that have been deleted.

[♛☧Priscilla☧♛]

I think it was wrong to kick Nanny old chaps...
My opinion is, there should be a separate competition for video AARs, but until it gets established people like Nanny can present their work on normal ones! I mean he spent his efforts and time on it and all that, and you just boot him? That's mean =(

[♔GrinningManiac♔]

I would like to say that the Video AARS should get their own competition/entry area, but I feel there would not be enough of them to warrant such a move. You'd get Nanny (occasionally) and mabye one or two other fellows.

I think we should keep them all in one basket for now and split it if the video-AAR-making community suddenly grows

[Tim1988]

I think that Nanny's AAR should be allowed in the competition. As stated earlier in the thread it is not just a video, there is a text story as well (and for this reason i don't think that Debts of Honor for example should be entered (which I know it hasn't)). There is nothing against it in the rules and to state that it gives him an unfair advantage is stupid - anyone could make a video, its not limited to him. In the future, if more people start doing it this way then yes, start up a new competition, but in the meantime, when its just the Nanny, there's no point in having a competition with only him included and its disrespecting his hard work not to allow it entered into anything.


P.s. I hope that at the end of the month (or whenever it is that the competition closes), if the community has voted that the Nanny's piece should be allowed in, then when voting starts he will be reentered and this is not just a thread to decide what should happen with future MAARCs.

[myrmedon]

moderator, i voted incorrectly if its possible to change it...

now on to the topic. I say no... video AARs such as debts of honour is NOT the same thing as Nanny's "journal" AAR which was augmented by battle videos. These videos came with text for those people who did not wish to view them as well (a written report of the battle).

I am currently writing an AAR which you can check on the NTW AAR Section... its not a video AAR but I find it adds flavour and style to make a battle video, but as an enhancement not a replacement. The bulk of it is literary...

My two cents, CAN currency.

[Legio]

Wow Legio. Have you actually READ any of my AARs? My writing is not the best, but I put alot of effort into it, and try not to waste a readers time. BTW...in the last MAARC, I submitted an AAR that had "shinies"...didn't get many votes (2! LOL). You know why? Because people voted for the best written AARs...better than mine. Hell, I voted for the others I think you under estimate the intelligence of the MAARC voters...the best AARs tend to win, and I haven't won anything yet. What is "a little much" about my work? My AARs are not the most popular, not the most visited on the site. Why so determined to keep me out of a competition?

"People will always vote for whatever has the most shinies in it"...that is just a very cynical statement. The people who vote in MAARC aren't your average Mudpit or Thema Devia spammers. Alot of thought is put into the votes, I believe. If people see "shinies" but no substance, they won't vote for it. Very cynical, and I am very disappointed that you hold the AAR community in so little regard.

"We can't honestly stop people from having masterfully edited pics, and from people from voting from those guys"...another very cynical statement. Why WOULD you want to stop "those guys"? The people who select the right shots, spend alot of time editing them, and then decide how they contribute to the written story are putting alot of work into their AARs, and many make for damn fine reading. What's the problem?

BTW...would it not have been better form to erase BOTH of my nominations AFTER this poll? Hey, if my fellow AAR writers think my AARs don't follow the MAARC rules (I have looked the rules over many times...can't see any violation myself, but maybe someone sees something else), then take them out. But you went ahead and removed me before consulting me or the AAR community at large. How are videos in AARs (AARs that that are mostly text) breaking rules? How can you remove my nominations without first changing the rules, or consulting the community? Very very poor form, and more than a little arbitrary.

Just to point out again, my video AAR "Debts of Honour" was NOT nominated. The 2 AARs that were, "Journals of John MacDougal" and "Tannenberg" were written AARs, with video elements. These are the ones that have been deleted.

It might be cynical, but it's damn well true. Now, I'll admit that lately there has been a trend for gigantic walls of text like the ones started by AVIS, but I stand firm to my point that ones with great pictures will also win. There isn't any problem with it, and I never said there was, so no need to put words in my mouth. There isn't a feasible way to stop this, but it would simply be unfair to remove them as they are still an AAR. There isn't any need to stop them either; as it's not necessarily a bad thing. Concerning the removal of your nomination- I was not the one who did it so I do not exactly know the circumstances and people involved. However, whoever runs and organizes these things can do anything he wants with the competition, within reason. If he has done anything terribly wrong, then you can PM the head of content staff about his actions. That having been said, it is completely within his remit to be arbitrary as he is running the competitions. He is under no obligation to ask the community at large unless he wishes to. In fact, he has asked the community at large, and in this very thread we are posting in.

Well Nanny's work is certainly masterfully executed and well presented, the pioneer of a new type of A.A.R who should be congratulated for doing so in my opinion.
Now getting back to this competition, I haven't vote because the choices, banned this and banned, that is a little too biased if you ask me, however I agree that a new type of competition could be set up as soon as possible, but until it is Nanny has pioneered a new type of A.A.R. it would be unfair not to let him enter the MAARC competition until the new type of A.A.R competition is fully established and implemented, I commend the chap for his innovative contributions to this site! You cant stifle creativity chaps, just because this fellow has had a most praiseworthy and exciting idea, god forbid!

Innovation,creativity, discovery, this is what I always advocate!

Exactly, his innovation is getting its own category soon. In the video competitions.

I think it was wrong to kick Nanny old chaps...
My opinion is, there should be a separate competition for video AARs, but until it gets established people like Nanny can present their work on normal ones! I mean he spent his efforts and time on it and all that, and you just boot him? That's mean =(

Well old pie, there is a competition for it already, and I'm actually about to post the first entry threads.

I would like to say that the Video AARS should get their own competition/entry area, but I feel there would not be enough of them to warrant such a move. You'd get Nanny (occasionally) and mabye one or two other fellows.

I think we should keep them all in one basket for now and split it if the video-AAR-making community suddenly grows

For now we have the video competitions, which encourages AAR segments like Nanny's.

[Nanny de Bodemloze]

That having been said, it is completely within his remit to be arbitrary as he is running the competitions. He is under no obligation to ask the community at large unless he wishes to. In fact, he has asked the community at large, and in this very thread we are posting in.....


For now we have the video competitions, which encourages AAR segments like Nanny's.

It may be within his right, but that does not make it a good idea, or fair. We have POTW competitions too...so why don't you tell those extensively using pics to enter those instead, and not the AAR comps? I'll tell you why...it would be grossly unfair, and you'd kill the MAARC. Now, I see you make extensive use of pics in your AARs, so I can see why you'd be against that...why are you trying to push me out of this one, Legio?

As for video competitions, those are VIDEO competitions, not AARs. AARs are full-on stories to tell. The difference should be obvious.

[Legio]

It may be within his right, but that does not make it a good idea, or fair. We have POTW competitions too...so why don't you tell those extensively using pics to enter those instead, and not the AAR comps? I'll tell you why...it would be grossly unfair, and you'd kill the MAARC. Now, I see you make extensive use of pics in your AARs, so I can see why you'd be against that...why are you trying to push me out of this one, Legio?

As for video competitions, those are VIDEO competitions, not AARs. AARs are full-on stories to tell. The difference should be obvious.

Because there is a difference between a single pic and an AAR full of pics. No one is trying to push you out. If we had wanted to push you out we would have PMed you with a terse 'Sorry, you aren't allowed' and that would be that. As you can see, this is all a very public thread and open to debate. I personally would prefer that no video AARs were allowed in this, but that's nothing more than my opinion.

About the video competitions, nope, that's wrong. I see that your AAR is in segments. I wouldn't have any problem with you submitting segments of your AAR into each of the competitions. A video has a story to tell no matter what, whether it be a battle or simply the campaign map expanding.

[Legio]

links to video comps:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=33

(3 sticky threads, cant miss it)

[Legio]

Well we might as well make up a rule that anyone using photoshop on their pictures in these AARs are not allowed either, clearly it is an unfair advantage?
Nannys videos merely augment his AARs.
As for opening another competition, how very noble and all that but it doesn't address the issues here really, which is to me an attempt to disallow Nannys entries because other members are worried that he will have an unfair advantage? Well when I have ever met an issue where someone has an unfair advantage, my answer has always bean to learn what the advantage is and become proficient and better at what ever it is, then who has the advantage?
This looks like poor sport to me, however thats just my opinion chaps for what its worth.

That rule would just be absurd. There's a difference between a few pictures and a video. The competition I linked to has been in the works for over a month, it's not really the issue we're all kicking storms up about. It all boils down to this: if there are a majority of users using videos in their AARs, then I will be the first to want to allow them back into the MAARC. However, for now they are in the video competitions.

[Nanny de Bodemloze]

That rule would just be absurd. There's a difference between a few pictures and a video. The competition I linked to has been in the works for over a month, it's not really the issue we're all kicking storms up about. It all boils down to this: if there are a majority of users using videos in their AARs, then I will be the first to want to allow them back into the MAARC. However, for now they are in the video competitions.

A "few" pictures? Many AARs are using more than a few. How about just letting the intelligent MAARC voters decide...you know, last MAARC, I entered an AAR that had 2 vids in it. I got two votes. TWO. Hardly an Oscar sweep People vote for the best writing, afaik. And I haven't won a damned thing yet. When you look at the names of the nominees, and at the extensive volume of AAR experience they have, are you honestly saying that they will vote for my vids alone and not bother to see whether the AAR makes sense, or that the story and writing are any good? That they won't evaluate it critically against against the other awesome AARs, including their own?

If you think the process is so easily swayed by eye candy, then why would even support this competition? I have more faith in my peers than that. I'm not afraid to put my story in the mix, and loose. Only those who care so much about winning spend time undercutting the competitors, rather than better their own. Is winning these competitions worth so much? Never to me, my friend.


edit...btw...my main source of angst...the deleting of my AAR from the competition, has been rectified. Hesus has put "Journals of John MacDougal" back into the competition. thx

[Legio]

A "few" pictures? Many AARs are using more than a few. How about just letting the intelligent MAARC voters decide...you know, last MAARC, I entered an AAR that had 2 vids in it. I got two votes. TWO. Hardly an Oscar sweep People vote for the best writing, afaik. And I haven't won a damned thing yet. When you look at the names of the nominees, and at the extensive volume of AAR experience they have, are you honestly saying that they will vote for my vids alone and not bother to see whether the AAR makes sense, or that the story and writing are any good? That they won't evaluate it critically against against the other awesome AARs, including their own?

If you think the process is so easily swayed by eye candy, then why would even support this competition? I have more faith in my peers than that.

Dude, calm down. This is exactly what is happening now. There is a public poll above all of our posts asking people what they think. Anyone can vote. Not just me. Not just you. Not just Hesus. Not just the duffers. Anyone.
I'm not saying that people will vote for the vids even if the story is utter shite, which it is not in your case, but I am willing to bet money that people will vote because holy this has videos in it.

I support the comps because it's an internet forum and we're here to have fun. Competitions are usually a way to have friendly fun and hone your own skills at something- whether it be editing pictures, modding, or writing.

[Nanny de Bodemloze]

The poll is very poorly worded as is, and the options are BS. Option #3 is bogus. How would this competition run? There are so few of us includingvids in the AARs, it would be a joke. I have yet to hear any, I mean any, compelling argument to prohibit my AARs. And I do not accept "The MAARC voters will vote style over substance". Proof????????

No rules were violated in submitting an AAR that contained vids. My AARs were deleted BEFORE the result of even this flawed poll were in. How would you feel?

[Legio]

The poll is very poorly worded as is, and the options are BS. No rules were violated in submitting an AAR that contained vids. My AARs were deleted BEFORE the result of even this flawed poll were in. How would you feel?

What poll choices would you suggest? Option 3 is not bogus, as I believe that we have a video competition already. One which you wrote the rules for, I would like to stress.

Again, I was not in any way involved in the removal of your AAR from the poll as I have not been an active staff member of the AAR fora since around August of 2008, so I do not know the circumstances. It would be great if you didn't blame me for it. Was it removed from the submissions thread or the vote thread? We aren't prohibiting your AARs, as you can see they haven't been deleted or closed. They are still alive and intact, as far as I can tell.

To be honest, Hesus is granting everyone a great boon by posting this poll; no matter how flawed you may believe it is. He's under no obligation to ask you guys, and he did. What does he get? He gets insulted and called unfair, etc. How does he feel? I personally don't care which way it goes, but in my opinion I don't think video AARs should be included in the MAARC until a substantial majority of AARtists starts using that as an acceptable medium. I believe we didn't allow comic book style AARs a while back (although I am ready to be proved wrong as I have not payed attention to this section since around October of 2008 and consequently don't know a few things) for this same reason.

There's no reason to start kicking up storms and throwing up accusations of a great conspiracy against you. We like your AARs, your rep can testify to that. We like your contributions, your medal testifies to that. Why would we be censoring you? Just calm down for a bit and think this through.