USA Unlocked in 1700: A Lite Mod

[poa]

Hello, my first game crashed in 1703, i'm pretty sure it was during pirate turn, but its next to barbary so its a small chance i'm mistaken.
My 2nd game crash in 1733 during barbary turn, -i have long since made peace & trade with them,
it may be they are under attack by Spain trying to take Tunis.
I really want to continue this 2nd campaign so i hope you read this and check the savegame,
and i also wonder if this is a hybrid startpos ?
thanks
ed: the site refuses my uploads for now, i'll try again tomorrow,
but can you tell if you are using a hybrid esf ?

ed: wo and behold, i took another glance, and it turns out that the fortification around my first capitol got completed on the turn it crash

[Alwyn]

I'm sorry to hear that, poa. That sounds really annoying and frustrating.

I'm wondering if you were using the USA Unlocked in 1700 startpos or one of my Early American Revolution startpos files? Obviously, I'm not Scourge012, but I am confident that, yes, they are hybrid.

For what it's worth, I have been able to play campaigns right through to 1799 with the USA Unlocked in 1700 startpos. I have played several test campaigns using the Early American Revolution startpos files without crashes. However, going by the comments on this thread, some people have problems with crashes when using hybrid startpos files.

I wonder if particular events can trigger crashes using a hybrid startpos? Some people said (earlier on this thread) that they experienced crashes after they build a fort in New England. Did you build a fort in New England? Did you notice anything else which you did just before the crash on both occasions? Do you have a saved game from your second campaign from the late 1720s or early 1730s, before the crash - I wonder if making different choices in the game could avoid the crash.

I'm a novice modder. I wonder if any experienced modders can advise us - for instance, is there a way to edit a hybrid startpos to avoid crashes? Alternatively, is there a way to make the United States playable without using a hybrid startpos?

[poa]

No, it worked after i cancelled the construction of that fort !
that is what i want to highlight
Now i'm just hoping France get wiped out for a while so i can snatch those provinces,
and after that, the turn comes to Spain !

[Alwyn]

It's good to hear that it worked after you cancelled construction of the fort. I have amended the instructions for Early American Revolution to warn players about the Boston fort bug (it's possible to build a fort in the New England countryside using a general, but if you attempt to fortify Boston itself the game crashes on the turn when the fortifications would have been finished. As I see it, the best way to avoid this bug is to use the Shokh Hates Sieges mod, since this will prevent crashes due to the Boston fort bug even if an AI faction captures Boston. I attempted to fix the bug (details are in the instructions) without success - if anyone can suggest a way to do this, please let me know.

[Scourge012]

Goodness gracious, great balls of fire! Thread activity! Why didn't TWC e-mail me?

Anyway: It seems we've gotten it figured out...simply DO NOT build a fort in Boston AT LEAST while it is your capital. If you capture Philadelphia, the capital indicator will move there and Boston should be fair game for fortifying.

Additionally: That's cool, Alwyn, that you have enabled the Native American units for the USA. The reason why they aren't available by default by CA, despite the "alliances" made by the US with certain Native American tribes during the Revolution is because...well, American colonists wanted to purchase and otherwise expand into Native American territory West of the Appalachians. The British government said no--even if the land was legitimately purchased from Native Americans no American colonist could settle West of the mountain range. It's one of the reasons for the war listed in the Declaration of Independence (the DoI being nothing more than a glorified war declaration). This was well-known at the time and most "major" Native American tribes were allied with the British to preserve their territory. The few Native American allies the Continental Congress had were more or less charged with assisting the Continental Army in defending the frontier. Native Americans were not used as mercenaries or otherwise allowed to fight alongside the American army and played no virtually no role in the battles between American and British soldiers. I should clarify: Thousands of Native American warriors fought AGAINST the Americans at major battles (mostly in the South and around what is now part of Florida). America's allies mostly warred against other Native American tribes as part of their own long-simmering conflicts. Siding with the Americans was a mutually beneficial arrangement that kept the British-allied natives busy from the American viewpoint, and the Revolution was a reason to renew their own wars of conquest from the Native American's stand point.

[Scourge012]

Oh and yes: this Startpos is a hybrid startpos.

[poa]

thanks for history lesson

[Alwyn]

Hi Scourge012, thank you for this mod, the US is my favourite faction and my campaigns with USA Unlocked in 1700 are very enjoyable.

It sounds like you know the history of this era well. Are there any particular books or web sites which you recommend for people who'd like to know more?

Yes, I allowed the US to recruit Native American units (by modifying a mod by Shokh), although that mod didn't make it into the Early American Revolution mini-mod collection.

[police55]

Mod no longer Downloadable

[poa]

here is the 1700 US $9000 version
just remember not to build a fort around the first capitol, at least not until you got the new capitol

[Alwyn]

Thank you, poa. The Early American Revolution (EAR) US startpos which poa has kindly posted is a version of USA Unlocked in 1700 with some small bug fixes. (For example, I fixed the bug which causes the camera view to start in the Ivory Coast trade area, rather than on the east coast of the US, when you begin a new campaign). How many bug fixes are includes depends on which version of the Early American Revolution startpos was posted above. The current version of this startpos is v1.05; if you would like to do so, you can get the latest version by following the link from my signature.

[Dracula]

What's the problem to play with Britain or France in a historical campaign ? Or should there be a US mod for Rome Total War ?!

[poa]

there's no problem playing GB / France, or any other faction,
or, if you are referring to historical correctness,
why is it that a sloop and a 5th rate has longer ranged guns than a proper ship of line ?
why can a 5th rate beat a 2nd rate ship of line in ETW ?
these are the big questions

[Dracula]

why is it that a sloop and a 5th rate has longer ranged guns than a proper ship of line ?
why can a 5th rate beat a 2nd rate ship of line in ETW ?
these are the big questions

There are special ships armed only with carronades, in difference to same class that have normall guns. Carronades have shorter range.
A 5th rate to beat a 2nd I had not so far observed. However a bigger ship is slower turning, and if crippled, a smaller may position itself to fire so as to be untouched by its guns, or be little affected. I don't see a problem in that. Fleet (common) action is required to win.

[poa]

yes, and those special ships never went above 5th rates, so if anything, the 5th rate should have shorter range,
certainly in all cases shorter range than any heavy warship.
I've personally observed a 5th rate beat, not one 2nd rate, but six (6) 2nd rates

My 6 2nd rates routed in horror from 1 brig + 1 5th rate on auto-resolve....

[Dracula]

yes, and those special ships never went above 5th rates, so if anything, the 5th rate should have shorter range,
certainly in all cases shorter range than any heavy warship.
I've personally observed a 5th rate beat, not one 2nd rate, but six (6) 2nd rates

There are 2nd and 1st rate and over 1st with carronades, allthough in reality they would have mixed range guns, I am afraid in games cannot be represented exactly.

Aside of that the idea of bigger ships firing farther is wrong. Naval cannons were made by the constructor to either deliver a heavy blow (bigger caliber) or fire far (longer muzzle,body). With increasing the caliber one should expect increased range, but, as guns could not grow extremely long to retain the same accuracy, one had same length guns which were wider not longer. This naturally means reduced accuracy, hence range in game reality. Moreover, you had back then demi-culverins, demi-cannons, cannons and whatnot, some of brass all this variety resulting in different qualities. A bigger ship does not equall a longer range one. One would expect a ship of the time to be armed according to what role he was designed to perform and rearmed accordingly if they planned another action. And also year period of realease. All these things cannot be represented. But the larger guns should have shorter range due to reduced accuracy, or at least so it can be rendered in game. The range is currently and approx. one and the same for all classes ships, which avoids these difficulties. A brig for example would be expected in reality to be armed with "long guns" exactly to stay away from the range of large ships and have some success or not be sunk immediately. And in game the range is the same, so it's medium from what it should be in reality and what can be done by the game. But certainly doesn't have to be with shorter range.

As for autoresolve, that is a matter one wouldn't expect to be serious in, such are the game parameters, I am afraid. And even having that in mind I am not sure this did really happen, except if the 2nd rates were heavily battered and low on crew and the 5th rate was an admiral, the admiral being one of the crazy bonuses the game has included in its design.


p.s. Guess one should picture a real ship of the time having different cannons on its gundecks, heavier and shorter range on the lower decks and lighter up but longer range. Plus this range would depend also on the type of cannon and its material. But we can not be concerned with such representation of reality in current game.

[poa]

a larger ship is more accurate cause it roll less from recoil,
larger guns also has longer range, the lr suffix in ETW files was a dumb idea that delude people

[Dracula]

A larger gun has to propell a bigger ball. It can be propelled with the same accuracy and range of a smaller gun if the length of gun increases proportionally to the width. This wasnt observed historically. This table does not reflect reality.

[Alwyn]

What's the problem to play with Britain or France in a historical campaign ? Or should there be a US mod for Rome Total War ?!

There is no problem with playing Britain or France. Different players prefer different things and mods allow different players to enjoy what we prefer. Is there anything wrong with that? For example, I like alternative history - I recently wrote an Irish AAR based on a different way in which history might have developed (there is a link in my signature if anyone is interested). Also, I enjoy playing the US more than I enjoy playing Britain and France. I find it more challenging to start with a small nation. I find it more satisfying to defend a small nation against more powerful countries, rather than to lead an already powerful country such as Britain or France. That's just my preference - I don't think there's anything wrong with other players having different preferences.

For players who prefer a more historical path, you would be welcome to try my new These United Colonies mod. This mod allows you to start as the Thirteen Colonies and to have a revolution and become a republic under the American flag. The idea is that you can follow the path of history, fighting Queen Anne's War and the French and Indian War before taking on the British in the American Revolutionary War, or you can change history - it's up to you. The mod is currently at an early stage of development, and it certainly does not follow strict historical realism, but it is a bit more realistic than mods where you start as the United States in 1700.

[poa]

A larger gun has to propell a bigger ball. It can be propelled with the same accuracy and range of a smaller gun if the length of gun increases proportionally to the width. This wasnt observed historically. This table does not reflect reality.

you mean it doesnt reflect your reality