The Burqa Debate in Europe

[Armenum]

This debate has been going on frequently these days in several nations, the latest being in Belgium & France. I feel that the banning of full Islamic veils is right. When it comes to headscarves, the debate is a little more tricky...

The burqa, the law and other EU countries

By FRANCE 24 the 26/01/2010 - 18:08

France is not the only European country to be considering a ban on full Islamic veils. The Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark and Italy all have laws – or are considering laws – against clothes that cover all of the face.


In the Netherlands several bills relating to the prohibition of wearing burqas and niqabs are in preparation, especially relating to education and public services.


Denmark’s government is considering limiting the wearing of full veils in public, in schools and in courts, and is awaiting recommendations from a government committee. In 2009 a proposal to impose a ban was withdrawn after the country's justice ministry ruled that the laws would be problematic legally.


In Italy, a 1975 law that is part of the “provisions for the protection of public order” forbids the covering of faces in public places, be it by wearing veils or motorcycle helmets. Italy’s far-right Northern League proposed a bill in 2009 that would impose a prison sentence of up to two years and a 2,000 euro fine for those who “because of their religious affiliations are difficult or impossible to identify”.


In the UK, there are no laws prohibiting the wearing of the full veil, and on Jan. 22 the British government reaffirmed its commitment to freedom of expression in terms of both religion and dress. The UK's education ministry, however, published guidelines in 2007 allowing schools to ban the wearing of niqabs in class. British headteachers can impose their own dress codes and many schools insist that pupils wear uniform.


In Austria, there is an ongoing debate, started by Social Democrat Minister for Women Gabriell Heinisch-Hoseck, towards formulating laws that would ban the full veil in public spaces if the number of women wearing such veils were to increase dramatically.


Many local authorities in Belgium have banned the wearing of the full veil in public spaces, using police laws that forbid the wearing of masks in public other than at times of carnival.






Source URL: http://www.france24.com/en/20100126-...r-eu-countries
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[Gromovnik]

Those are excellent news.

[karo]

I'm against the burqa myself and it's time to ban it from Europe, it doesn't belong in Europe and it has gone on long enough.

[Copperknickers II]

I'm against the burqa myself and it's time to ban it from Europe, it doesn't belong in Europe and it has gone on long enough.

*sigh*

The veil has been a tradition in Europe up until just a hundred years ago or so. It was a common practice in medieval England for married women to wear a veil.

So please do not give us any rubbish about it being barbaric, its no more barbaric than a motorcycle helmet or a hoody and we don't ban them.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I don't see the different between forcing a woman not to wear the burqa and forcing a woman to wear the burqa.

[Senno]

I don't see the different between forcing a woman not to wear the burqa and forcing a woman to wear the burqa.

Find myself agreeing with Ferrets here. Shouldn't it just be up to the woman?

[Chlodwig I.]

Find myself agreeing with Ferrets here. Shouldn't it just be up to the woman?

No, if a headscarf is for 90%(?) of the Muslims enough then I think prohibiting full face coverage like the burqua is okay,
because it would respect the oppresion...er believe of the women in islam
and the western tradition of not covering the face.

By the way covering your face on political gatherings/demonstrations is illegal in Germany since 1985

[removeduser_487563287433]

No, if a headscarf is for 90%(?) of the Muslims enough then I think prohibiting full face coverage like the burqua is okay,
because it would respect the oppresion...er believe of the women in islam
and the western tradition of not covering the face.

By the way covering your face on political gatherings/demonstrations is illegal in Germany since 1985

In Turkey the headscarf is banned in public buildings, ie universities. That means women who believe in wearing it have to wear a stifling wig over their scarf in order to get an education.

I do not want that for my country and fellow citizens.

[Senno]

No, if a headscarf is for 90%(?) of the Muslims enough then I think prohibiting full face coverage like the burqua is okay,
because it would respect the oppresion...er believe of the women in islam
and the western tradition of not covering the face.

By the way covering your face on political gatherings/demonstrations is illegal in Germany since 1985

Interesting. So there's not a general belief of freedom of religion in Germany? Is this part of some compulsion towards law & order?

Women do wear burkhas on occasion in the US, I've seen them on occasion, and am comfortable leaving it up to the individual person what they wear. This goes for any person religious, athiest or otherwise, and any article of clothing.

It's not only a freedom of religion issue here in the US though, a free speech argument can also be made.

[Chlodwig I.]

Interesting. So there's not a general belief of freedom of religion in Germany? Is this part of some compulsion towards law & order?

Women do wear burkhas on occasion in the US, I've seen them on occasion, and am comfortable leaving it up to the individual person what they wear. This goes for any person religious, athiest or otherwise, and any article of clothing.

It's not only a freedom of religion issue here in the US though, a free speech argument can also be made.

Damn timezones....

No there is no freedom of religion in Germany
we only got freedom of creed

Art.4 GG
Freedom of faith and of conscience, and freedom to profess a religious
or philosophical creed, shall be inviolable

[♔DeusVult!♔]

Interesting. So there's not a general belief of freedom of religion in Germany? Is this part of some compulsion towards law & order?

Women do wear burkhas on occasion in the US, I've seen them on occasion, and am comfortable leaving it up to the individual person what they wear. This goes for any person religious, athiest or otherwise, and any article of clothing.

It's not only a freedom of religion issue here in the US though, a free speech argument can also be made.

I too do not believe that burkas should be banned. However, I wonder just how much say the women have in the matter. And on the other hand, we DO ban certain types of clothing/dressing as it is. It is illegal to walk around naked or in your underwear. In some towns/counties it is illegal to wear baggy pants (ie, pant's waistband down around the knees). Etc. So there is nothing particularly egregious about banning the burka, except that it is an islamic tradition to help in treating women like animals, errr, I mean, express cultural diversity. Yeah, thats it...

BTW, this reminds me of a story I heard of an English general in India who decided to stop the Hindu practice of burning women alive:

You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.

Not sure how true it is, but still an awesome quote, if I do say so myself.

[Phier]

I don't see the different between forcing a woman not to wear the burqa and forcing a woman to wear the burqa.

Western women are not allowed to go uncovered in many Islamic nations. That is there culture, their take on what women should do.

We have our own.

I don't see the difference between forcing a woman to be clothed or allowing one to be naked. Its what our culture demands as proper behavior.

This doesn't even take into account the misogynistic nature of said culture which in itself should be reason enough.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Western women are not allowed to go uncovered in many Islamic nations. That is there culture, their take on what women should do.

We have our own.

I don't see the difference between forcing a woman to be clothed or allowing one to be naked. Its what our culture demands as proper behavior.

This doesn't even take into account the misogynistic nature of said culture which in itself should be reason enough.

If you cared about our culture you would be confident in it prevailing without oppressive laws targeting women and their faith.

[Phier]

If you cared about our culture you would be confident in it prevailing without oppressive laws targeting women and their faith.

Would this be before or after the acid attack?

[removeduser_487563287433]

Would this be before or after the acid attack?

Wait, how exactly would a burqa ban prevent acid attacks - not especially prevelant in Europe?

[Blaze86420]

Western women are not allowed to go uncovered in many Islamic nations. That is there culture, their take on what women should do.

We have our own.

I don't see the difference between forcing a woman to be clothed or allowing one to be naked. Its what our culture demands as proper behavior.

This doesn't even take into account the misogynistic nature of said culture which in itself should be reason enough.

Glad to know Europe and Saudi Arabia are on the same page when it comes to dress codes.

[PointOfViewGun]

Western women are not allowed to go uncovered in many Islamic nations. That is there culture, their take on what women should do.

We have our own.

You culture is not have women wear minimum clothing possible but it's the freedom to what you want. Banning any kind of clothing is a direct violation of the level of freedom that the West claims to represent. Of course ignoring the fact that this has already been violated in certain issues.

[Defianc4]

I don't see the different between forcing a woman not to wear the burqa and forcing a woman to wear the burqa.

In one of them, you are wearing the Burka, and int he other you are not. When you emigrate to some place to take advantage of their country, you abide by their cultural standards.

Plus, Burkas and veils are used by the Arabs to subjugate their women, because they know they're much smarter than they themselves are. That is, after brainwashing them into wearing it.

It's perverse and disgusting. I hope that anyone with respect for women will advocate banning this trashy symbol of slavery.

[Jom]

In one of them, you are wearing the Burka, and int he other you are not. When you emigrate to some place to take advantage of their country, you abide by their cultural standards.

Plus, Burkas and veils are used by the Arabs to subjugate their women, because they know they're much smarter than they themselves are. That is, after brainwashing them into wearing it.

It's perverse and disgusting. I hope that anyone with respect for women will advocate banning this trashy symbol of slavery.

I was under the impression that amongst the cultural standards of Western European countries was freedom of expression and freedom of worship.

[removeduser_487563287433]

In one of them, you are wearing the Burka, and int he other you are not. When you emigrate to some place to take advantage of their country, you abide by their cultural standards.

Plus, Burkas and veils are used by the Arabs to subjugate their women, because they know they're much smarter than they themselves are. That is, after brainwashing them into wearing it.

It's perverse and disgusting. I hope that anyone with respect for women will advocate banning this trashy symbol of slavery.

I thought our cultural standards were freedom of religion and expression?

If you yourself had respect for women you would give them the choice whether or not to wear the burqa - and yes, some will choose to do so.