France at early state!

[LonelyWolf]

Hi everyone! i'm new to the forum. And i've been playing Medieval 2 Total War for sometime. I've already beat the short campaign with England in medium difficult. And now, i'm playing as France in the Very Hard difficult. And i'm in a very awkward situation now. Well the problem is i'm facing the 2 full-stack army, one from Sicily and one from England. And they keep attacking in France territory . I really don't know how to deal with them. As my army is very weak and the economy is not enough to produce troop to deal with them. I tried to ceasefire with them but they just not accepted . Could any genius mind here help me please.

PS: Sorry for my bad English

[Romanichine]

It's hard to say without more knowledge of your situation. It's also hard to believe that England is attacking you with a full stack and you can't afford an army to fight them.

A full stack is 20 units, right?

What turn is this? England is usually busy with Scotland at the start and won't commit a full stack on the main land for a while. Sicily I can believe, as they often like to attack Marseilles early.

What did you do during the first turns? Did you at least conquer Bordeaux, Metz and Dijon? The starting economy of France can be difficult but with these settlements you should be able to recover. Build your cities, but keep to the low costs (roads, land clearance, grain exchange) otherwise you won't have enough money to improve them all.

Is England or Sicily excommunicated? If so, maybe you can request a crusade from the Pope.

[LonelyWolf]

It's hard to say without more knowledge of your situation. It's also hard to believe that England is attacking you with a full stack and you can't afford an army to fight them.

A full stack is 20 units, right?

What turn is this? England is usually busy with Scotland at the start and won't commit a full stack on the main land for a while. Sicily I can believe, as they often like to attack Marseilles early.

What did you do during the first turns? Did you at least conquer Bordeaux, Metz and Dijon? The starting economy of France can be difficult but with these settlements you should be able to recover. Build your cities, but keep to the low costs (roads, land clearance, grain exchange) otherwise you won't have enough money to improve them all.

Is England or Sicily excommunicated? If so, maybe you can request a crusade from the Pope.

It's the 13 turn right now. Just after i take Rennes and then i leave it with 2 unit of spear militia. I intended to move the army that has conquered Rennes to deal with Caen, and i've very suprise that they has a full stack army like that. Sicily already be excommunicated. But the Pope still favor in England. What can i do?

[Loki_999]

Good point from romanichine. If they are attacking you then they are probably loosing rep quite rapidly with the pope. As long as you have been a good little catholic boy then the pope should respond favourably to you if they get excommed and you request a crusade. Ideally you want to be on that crusade and win it, but considering your situation it would be worth it even if another faction succeeds.

[Loki_999]

At least get Sicily off your back with a crusade. Divert a general on the crusade (so you don't loose rep with the pope) but unless you can afford to send enough units don't try and beat other nations to the punch. IIRC you need at least 6 (or 7) units in a stack to join the crusade. If you are really tight for money/units then you could forget about it, or just make the stack from peasants.

As for England defend. 2 spear militia in Rennes sounds like you want England to attack you there, especially if they are wandering around with a full stack. I presume this is a border region so it really needs to be better defended.... however, you could use this weakness to your advantage. Scrounge up enough troops for at least half a stack and position them more than 1 move away from the English stack. If England takes the bait and attacks Rennes (presuming they siege first) then you can come from behind and pin them between the castle/city and your other army. The use the hammer and anvil tactic to crush them against the walls of Rennes. It would help if you had archers in Rennes instead of spearmen, but once your reserve army has engaged you can sally forth with the spearmen and attack from behind.

If played well you should be able to win the battle.

What the hell is Scotland doing while this is going on?

Of course i do see one other problem. You went from England on Medium to France on Very Hard. France has a harder time than England so not only have you upped the difficulty of the game, you have also chosen a more difficult faction (although France is a really powerful faction once it gets going).

Also, you should be aware, on Medium difficulty the computer doesn't get any unfair advantages... on Very Hard it gets cash injections which helps them produce full stacks by turn 13...

[Romanichine]

Brave effort by Loki to try helping. I, for one, think you're not giving us enough meat to chew on.

Your situation can't be that bad if you are only 13 turns in the game. Definitely request a crusade on Naples to make Sicily pay. Beyond that, I am swimming in the fog with the lack of information.

Your starting armies should be somewhere, even if you overextended quickly: Get as much as you can together, join the crusade, fill your stack with cheap mercenaries and throw everything at Caen to clear England off the mainland.

Maybe you can attach a savegame (zip it) so we can see how desperate your situation is, and try to give you better advice.

[Valandur]

Hahaha.
Play the factions against each other.
If Sicily are excommunicated, call a Crusade on them and hope Milan and Venice join. Then Sicily will have two factions coming down from the north and will probably be unable to commit troops to attack you. Milan and Venice are usually warring with each other anyway so two of the three will die or just be annihilated to the point of dying. With the English, send diplomats to Scotland and Denmark and ask them to attack England as both are natural enemies of them. The Scots will keep the English busy to the to the north and the Danes will probably destroy England's navy and prevent them from dropping off more armies on the mainland. And they may even drop an army off in England from Scandinavia.

Diplomacy is your best friend. Use it to your advantage.

[LonelyWolf]

Thanks everyone, i've called a crusade on Sicily and they has take half their force to return to defend their capital. And i've able to take back Marseilles. About the English. After i take Rennes, i intended to move all the force back to Paris because i see about 8 unit of the Holy Roman Empire moving into France's border. I've already form an alliance with England so i don't think they going to attack me. Therefor i just only leave 2 unit of spear militia in Rennes to maintain public order. How fool im i to think the England did not betray me.

The situation now is: It's turn 15, and i have about 4000 florin, 3 unit of spear sergent, 2 unit of mail knight in Bordeaux, 3 peasant archer at Anger, some militia in the cities to keep the public order. And the full stack english is still wandering between Caen and Rennes, about 8 unit of Holy Roman Empire are standing in front of Rheims ready to attack, some unit of Moor near Toulouse, and some unit of Spain near Bordeaux. I have a alliance with Spain. The enemy everywhere, and i really don't have any strategy to deal with them. Maybe i started over again by playing the hard difficult instead

@romanichine: I don't know where my save game was

[Romanichine]

I've already form an alliance with England so i don't think they going to attack me. Therefor i just only leave 2 unit of spear militia in Rennes to maintain public order. How fool im i to think the England did not betray me.

You lost me here. Did you not say that England was previously attacking you in your territory with a full stack?

Now you're allies!

The situation now is: It's turn 15, and i have about 4000 florin, 3 unit of spear sergent, 2 unit of mail knight in Bordeaux, 3 peasant archer at Anger, some militia in the cities to keep the public order. And the full stack english is still wandering between Caen and Rennes, about 8 unit of Holy Roman Empire are standing in front of Rheims ready to attack, some unit of Moor near Toulouse, and some unit of Spain near Bordeaux. I have a alliance with Spain. The enemy everywhere, and i really don't have any strategy to deal with them. Maybe i started over again by playing the hard difficult instead

I am thinking it may not be clear to you who is an enemy. If you are not at war with a faction, their armies do not hurt you in any way even if they are in your territory. Having armies on your border does not mean the AI will attack.

Moors, Spain, HRE : did any declare war yet?

@romanichine: I don't know where my save game was

They should be in the "saves" directory of your M2TW installation. Generally this is:
C:\Program Files\Sega\Medieval II Total War\saves

[LonelyWolf]

You lost me here. Did you not say that England was previously attacking you in your territory with a full stack?

Now you're allies!

I mean before they attacked me they were my allies, after i take Rennes and left 2 unit of spear militia they move their army to attack Rennes.

I am thinking it may not be clear to you who is an enemy. If you are not at war with a faction, their armies do not hurt you in any way even if they are in your territory. Having armies on your border does not mean the AI will attack.

Moors, Spain, HRE : did any declare war yet?

I've made a test: I saved another save and move my army out of Toulouse leaving it with just a unit of peasant archer. Then i end my turn and the Moor attack Toulouse. I load the previous save and end the turn without moving the army out of Toulouse and they did not attack it. I end many turn after and they just standing there. So i think they just wait to attack it when there were a few unit garrisoned. As for the HRE.

Well, i'm plan to start again, could you advise me what need to do! I'm really appreciate your help!

[Commander5xl]

France is tough early on until you develop those higher end units and if your campaign game ison Very Hard, its no wonder your struggling I tried France on Very hard and gave up at turn 25. Venice, Spain, Portugal, and england were all attacking me at once. I have bad luck playing french

[KnightOfPortugal]

Ah, France; the Flower of Chivalry..

Ye, they start quite pathetic, because they don't really have any unique units in the beginning.

I mean: England has an advantage in the early game because of their Longbowmen (crap)
But, if you take it easy with France in the early ages, and develop (in my campaign that ALWAYS includes conquering the Iberian peninsula, because I always got either the Moors or either the Spaniards backstabbing me (Portugal is usually hanging around about everywhere.))
But when you develop, you can get awesome units like the Scot's guard, which are the best archers in the game etc etc..

Later on, France virtually has the most complete roster and actually beats the fuzz out of other North European factions.

[leseras]

Ah, France; the Flower of Chivalry..

Ye, they start quite pathetic, because they don't really have any unique units in the beginning.

I mean: England has an advantage in the early game because of their Longbowmen (crap)
But, if you take it easy with France in the early ages, and develop (in my campaign that ALWAYS includes conquering the Iberian peninsula, because I always got either the Moors or either the Spaniards backstabbing me (Portugal is usually hanging around about everywhere.))
But when you develop, you can get awesome units like the Scot's guard, which are the best archers in the game etc etc..

Later on, France virtually has the most complete roster and actually beats the fuzz out of other North European factions.

Yes, sure that happens...if they don't get decimated by England, Spain or HRE by that point of time.

[Romanichine]

Good luck with your new campaign LonelyWolf.

Here's a few tips that may help you with France:

- Focus early on these four rebel settlements: Bordeaux, Rennes, Metz and Dijon. Bordeaux is very important because it leads directly into the heart of France. Defending becomes easier after you control it.

- Because you start with many cities, it's hard to develop them all. Stick to roads and low-costs buildings (land clearance, grain exchanges). Make trade rights with all your neighbors except England.

- Send your initial diplomat directly to Rome to seal an alliance with the Pope. Then keep him there and send gifts to the Pope every time the pope-o-meter drop below 9 crosses.

- Conquer Caen from England. Removing them from the mainland is very important to consolidate your borders. Province bordering water are less likely to be attacked and can be defended lightly, generally with units that will cost you no upkeep. Once Caen is taken, you can try making peace with England.

- Once conquered, convert Bordeaux & Caen into cities. Toulouse, Angers & Metz should be enough castles to defend your lands.

- After conquering Caen and the 4 rebel settlements , keep the bulk of your army in Toulouse and Metz, where they can defend against any attack.

- When you can support enough units to protect Toulouse and Metz, it's time to build a stack and conquer England, then Scotland. The Isles are easy to defend and will not bring more pressure once you hold them.

[KnightOfPortugal]

Yes, sure that happens...if they don't get decimated by England, Spain or HRE by that point of time.

England can't even beat the Scots properly in the campagin. The HRE gets beaten up themselves, and Spain only goes as far as Bordeaux. France survives 6 out of 10 campaigns. 3 of the times they die is caused by the Milanese.

[LonelyWolf]

Yeah, i really like the power of calvary charge you know, that's why i choose France! But in early state they are really week

[LonelyWolf]

And the blasphemer Sicily came out of no where near the coast of Marseille :|

[Valandur]

Don't worry, after a while, France will become the most overpowered faction in the game if they aren't destroyed early.

Those Nobles Knights should be balanced out so that they are actually able to be killed.

[LonelyWolf]

Hi everyone! After i destroyed the Milan Faction there is a army of rebel which has 2 unit of Pikemen, could anyone tell me which faction has the Pikemen?

[Romanichine]

Hi everyone! After i destroyed the Milan Faction there is a army of rebel which has 2 unit of Pikemen, could anyone tell me which faction has the Pikemen?

Many factions do: France, HRE, Milan, Papal States, Portugal, Scotland, Sicily, Spain, Venice.

Portugal and Scotland have the best pikes.