Is it possible to play as the Byzantines and not get a mullering?

[Helm]

I would appreciate any stategic advice you can give because I just can't seem to avoid getting my ass handed to me on a plater. I find myself having to fend off Hungry, the Turks and the Egyptians while the Teutonic Order stroll into Constantople like they own the place, either that or Islam declares a Jihad on it, and that's the end of me.

Edit: I see there already is a guide for on here for them, but instead of making an an alliance with Hungry would it be better to attack them as soon as possible? What I'd like to do is take all their land then go after the Turks.

[algorath]

Well it aint called "total war" for nottin´
I think its easiest to concentrate on a few key settlements (depending on what era you play) and building them up asap. Once you defeat a bunch of the unbelievers, offer them peace and they´ll usually accept

[Lordreaven]

Go for Anatola first, once conquered you can have breathing room (and a good econemy) you can go for europe first, but its a little harder imo. And always have Constantinople Garrisoned with an very strong army, casue it is your bread winner.

[Kaledon]

Hungary isn't a faction I like to attack early. They have horse archers, and we as we all know horse archers are units that cause pretty much unavoidable casualties. Their settlements aren't worth all that much (PORTS OR BUST), and it pushes you closer to a bunch of factions. If you take Anatolian settlements, it doesn't take you all that much closer to any other factions. You already share a border with the Turks, after all.

Although in truth, I never attack the Turks. I ally with them, because I lurvs them. I then provide them with support against anyone who attacks them, so that they can survive until late game. However, if I was worried about difficulty I'd savage them early.

[Ichon]

As Byzantines you got basically 2 directions to go to build up your core, Greece or Anatolia. Both are relatively easy to defend. Pushing deeper into Europe or Mid-East brings you into contact with many more factions and virtually gurantees multi front wars. If you take out Hungary you will have major problems with Venice, Poland, and HRE.

[Helm]

If you take out Hungary you will have major problems with Venice, Poland, and HRE.

Venice, Poland and HRE normally seem very friendly towards me, I was attacked by Venice early on once but normally they offer an alliance. I still think if I could crack Hungry I'd be in a posistion to give the Muslims a really good seeing to.

[Ichon]

Venice, Poland and HRE normally seem very friendly towards me, I was attacked by Venice early on once but normally they offer an alliance. I still think if I could crack Hungry I'd be in a posistion to give the Muslims a really good seeing to.

Things change when you share a border. Welcome to try Hungary first and with good diplomacy/reputation you probably not get attacked by everyone but I guarantee one of those will attack you almost right away and a 2nd will attack at some point even if you are paying tribute.

[Concrete]

Hungary is better avoided early. (I only play early era)
Other people WILL attack you, which will weaken your blitz into Hungary, and if you take too long, the Bulgarian revolts will cut your lands in half.
Well, that will happen even if you defeat Hungary entirely. It's best to tackle them after the revolts.
Another reason why it's better to attack Turkey first, is that conquering turkey will bring you in contact with the Egyptians, who have weak armies.
But taking over Hungary will give you shared borders with the Holy Roman Empire, Lithuania, Poland and Kiev.

[cezarip]

I tend to ally with Hungary right at the beginning (marriage) and with the Seljuks. I blitz couple of rebel settlements in Anatolia and gift one to the Seljuks for alliance. I gave them also the city in Crimea since keping it means trouble with Kievan Rus. Getting a marriage with Hungary is easy. Do grab Sofia and Skopje early, before they do. I then tend to build economically while keeping very good relations with my allies offering money gifts and 150 mnai x15 rounds tribute.

Do not attack any neutral factions, let thhem come at you but be prepared. They will come and attack you and it is important to keep a very good reputation. Helps the diplomacy.
Defend against Venice, take Ragusa early and then Venice itself (gift it to the Hungarians otherwise it means war with the Italian factions). In my last campaign I bought most of the Seljuks provinces in Anatolia.

Careful, Egipt tends very often to attack Cyprus. Just keep a very strong navy around it and sink their staks of doom. I also tend to have 1 stack sack every now and then sack Alexandria, Cairo, Damietta and other Fatimid coast cities for extra cash (I do it also when I play the Seljuks). Grant them to the Seljuks (they will loose them fast) and you will keep the Muslim factions fighting among themselves. This way Egipt remains weak and when you feel ready, just invade and conquer them.

[Stario]

Hungary have Istvan, arguably the greatest General in the game . Head to Anatolia first. If you can try to entrap Istvan by marriage, it is your only hope to avoid doom at the hands of Istvan later on.

[StrikerThrex]

Well about 90% of my campains i play as romans/byzan so let me share my 2cents on the matter. First if you are just playing 6.1 make sure you have the updated roster for them. I play erly era as late era is umm not fun :p I alsy play 6.2 rr/rc with a few modifications

Begging of the game the rebel settlements i take are Sofia, Scopia, arta, Armedia(probally misspelled that) however this one is key its a exellent stageing ground for the turks, really close to Caesarea. Quickly train diplomats and send one by boat to italy securing alliance with the pope and paying off the italy factions so they will atleast leave me alone for awhile, one north securing alliance with hungry and sometimes keiv. I have tried fighting hungry and like everyone else says its probally not something you want to do early while you are building up, creates way to many fronts.

These settlements early on give you exellent defensive postions and a good economy to fund your war effort.

Its up to you on a alliance with the turks i would highly recommend against it, ive played 6.1 and 6.2 rc/rr and the turks always break the alliance when a jihad is called even if we are perfect relations...Not to mention it is easy to crush the turks in the early campain, in the late era they get really good units. I've allied with them three times and had them break it because of a jihad three times ~ I usally dont finish the turks off, leaving them with a few settlements, that creates a great buffer against cumans, khaz, and the mongols later on.

Once you have eliminated the turk presence its up to you, you can expand almost anywhere you want, you have a extremly good defensiable postion with great economy. I usally go after the Fatimids, cause they always end up attacking me and if left unchecked if khaz falls they send endless stacks your way.

Diplomats are key for the romans, you have so much money quickly and i never can spend it all, and paying off neighbors to keep peace or even a ceasefire is key to keep you out of a multi front war. Without diplomats you can end up in wars with Fatmids, Venice, Sicly, Keiv, Hungry and some others if you arent carefull that by that time it can get overwheliming. Also keep in mind that your units will lose some of their strenghts over time, erly era romans are amazing, but later they start to lose their strength. Pick one faction and give them all ya got, hope this helps a little ~

[Xanthippus of Sparta]

In my current campaign, I'm using SS 6.1 and the Basileia ton Romaion submod. This adds a bunch of awesome units to the Romans. If you really like the Byzantines, I highly recommend it. The units it provides are historically accurate and all very useful. It gives you some more capabilites: recruiting AP Javelinmen, Cataphracts from cities fairly early, etc. However, the submod makes the Roman starting position harder, especially in the Late Period.

So naturally I went for a Late Period game.

Your Empire is divided between Epirus (Arta, Durazzo), Niacea (plus Canakkae and Synmra), and Trebizond (plus Sinope). Constaninople, Macedonia, and Greece are held by full stacks of rebels (representing the Crusader Latin Kingdom).

If you hold Durazzo, your Empire will be a target for the Venetians. They must have this city at all costs. In my game, they captured it, but I retreated to Arta and sucessfully held it. If you don't have Durazzo, chances are the Venetians will leave you alone. It's OK not to hold Durazzo as it's not a really profitable city anyway. But war with Venice makes for a good excuse to seize Crete if you're playing in the Late Period.

I tend to not go after Hungary early, my focus as the Byzantines tends to go eastward where the riches are. The Hungarians are usually won over by a marriage and by gifting them money to keep up good relations every few turns after that. The Hungarians make for good Allies as they provide a buffer to the north of Greece/Macedonia/Thrace. Plus if you're at war with Venice and they are as well they will assault Ragusa in Dalamatia relentlessly.

Holding off Venice and allying with Hungary puts you in a good position to attack Anatolia. Take Isparta first, I'd say. Use this castle for quick reinforcements as you push on Ankara and Iconium. Your main goal is Caesarea. It's an extremely well developed castle. Take troops on ships to capture Trebizond if you're playing in the early period.

When fighting the Turks/Fatimids, ally with the Templars or the Kingdom of Jerusalem. It's usually easily done and maintained.

Attacks on Constaninople

Before I downloaded the Basileia ton Romaion submod I was playing an early period Roman campaign before CTDs ended that around 1315. Similar to in the OPs game a Jihad was called on Constaninople. The Turks responded first, but were easily repused as they were weakened by me. The Fatmids came next, laid siege, but were beated. Just when I thought the coast was clear, two Kwarezmian armies that had rounded the Black Sea to attack laid siege. My half stack of Spearmen/Byzantine Infantry could not hold the city and I lost it. I was caught unprepared; they also took Adrianople and Niacea. But by that time they were worn thin and I was able to take back these cities in a few turns. Chances are that no matter how unready you are reckless Jihadis will overextend themselves eventually....deep in your territory.

Also, our games have something else in common. The Teutonic order made a beeline for Constaninople in this game of mine as well. I was a little more prepared...they only managed to capture Constaninople because they had one army besieging and another as backup. Their first attack was destroyed but at great cost to my force; I lost the city to their reinforcements. I brought up new troops from Anatolia; but I actually lost two battles (and my faction heir, a great general) to the Teutons before I was able to wear down their force. When fighting the order, focus on killing the Ritterbruders at all costs, preferably with heavy cavalry of your own, or spearmen (but be careful Ritterbruders scare infantry).

If you can perserve this, you should be immensely powerful. I was able to roll into the Levant and from there into Egypt not long after, as the Templars beat the Turks to a pulp with my financial backing. Like Striker suggested in the above post, I never destroy the Turks completely. Leaving them with some regions in the southern caucuses, Iraq, etc. provides a useful buffer.

[Ichon]

I think that is a normal late era start... or at least it has been every time I started late era Byzantines. I usually just start and look over their forces and do another campaign because Byzantines always seemed so easy to me but I decided to give a go to late era VH BGR game. Having your forces split is making it more difficult and without the best Greek cities the income is very low first 10-15 turns. In fact my debt went to over -20,000 for awhile but is coming down now.

Natural early targets to attack are; Rhodes, Iraklion, Isparta, Sinope. I also attacked Ragusa, Adana, and Bari in the first 10 turns. I only held on to Rhodes as it has high enough Orthodox to not revolt.

Sinope given to Genoa for Alliance, Trebizond and Iraklion given to Turks for peace, Ancona and Ragusa given to HRE for Alliance, Isparta sacked and let go rebel as a buffer for peace with Turks. Bari given back to Sicily for peace(mostly wanted to slow them down from going into Greece as I always see them do that at some point around turn 25-30)Venice is down to only Venice and not a threat currently while Mongols still far away.

Getting the strongly held Latin kingdom Rebel Greek cities including Constantinople is a priority to have steady cash flow and an integrated kingdom where you can actually reinforce from close regions. Hungary would not agree to an alliance no matter what I tried so I figure they or Turks will be in war soon.

Preserving the early units you get as late era Byzantines is extremely important as it will be awhile before you can buy new units or retrain. Luckily Byzantines have very powerful units. In capturing and sacking 7 cities only lost about 300 men. Got lucky with Ragusa and Ancona though... Venice depleted their garrisons to attack Zagreb.

[Klironomos ton Romaion]

I personally would advise against attacking either Hungary or Turkey. Anatolia and Hungary offer poor settlements and the battles against horse archers will be devestating early on in the game. I instead blitz Isparta, Canakkale, and Smyrna on the Turkish side, fort up the mountain passes, then I blitz Sofia, the territory that's northeast of Sofia (starts with a 'b'), Belgrade and Zagreb, then I turn the territory northeast of Sofia, Belgrade, and Zagreb into castles, turning Isparta and Sofia as castles, and the rest of the castles that don't border anyone into cities.

Fortifying my borders against and ignoring Turkey and Hungary puts a large gap between myself and the Golden Horde, when it comes, and it also allows me to have gunpowder before engaging both Turkey and Hungary, the Golden Horde, Russia, Kiev, and Poland, who all make extensive use of missle cavalry.

Then I attack Italy, whos cities are much more profitable than Turkey or Hungary, then deal with Germany, France, Aragon, Leon, Portugal, the Moors, Denmark, the Norse, England, Scotland, and Ireland in that order, always directing all my forces onto a single country at a time if possible. I also fortify my border with Poland. By then the Golden Horde has lost its initial momentum and I deal with the eastern countries one by one.

Oh and as a sidenote, while playing countries off each other is important for everyone, it's extremely important for the Romans, and they usually have the wealth to take advantage of it to the fullest. If you really want to blitz Hungary, stick Germany, Poland, Lithuania, and Kiev on them, I'm sure it will work. I remember once having Denmark, Genoa, Venice, Poland, and France attack the HRE, and Germany on my minimap went from pitch black to multicolored in about 4 turns.

[Ziame]

I find myself having to fend off the Hungry

Feed them and they'll piss off

[AnthoniusII]

I would appreciate any stategic advice you can give because I just can't seem to avoid getting my ass handed to me on a plater. I find myself having to fend off Hungry, the Turks and the Egyptians while the Teutonic Order stroll into Constantople like they own the place, either that or Islam declares a Jihad on it, and that's the end of me.

Edit: I see there already is a guide for on here for them, but instead of making an an alliance with Hungry would it be better to attack them as soon as possible? What I'd like to do is take all their land then go after the Turks.

My friend read this advice no matter what version of SS you are playing.

This submod is designed to show you medieval Roman history after 1080AD. In the 23 units you will find that 9 are cavalry. That does not mean that you will automatically win against any opponent in battle. The units consist of a variety of "native" and mercenary troops of all levels: from armed peseants to the heaviest cavalry in the world.

In our sub mod you will realise that diplomacy can buy you crucial time for your empire. You will find some elite units in your capital at the start of the early era campaign but you may want to think twice before you start any hostilitees with any faction (even the most hated of enemies).
Even via free merc troops you will soon realise that your capital is largely undefended and danger is very close indeed. The units can give you a boost to reconquer the former and glorious empire but they can also easily destroy you by their cost or their minimal loyalty.

Some simple advice:
1: Do not fight wars on two fronts the same time. Use your diplomats wisely.
2: War needs money even that could mean great peace times!
3: The Empire's troops are more defensive than offensive. It is not wise to use defensive troops(even the ellite ones) in the open field.
4: Try to fortify borders that your neighbours who you aren't currently at war with. This way you gain time to raise new armies and avoid sudden attacks.
5: Choose your primary targets carefully: There are settlements that can, for the most part,neutralise the ennemy for a long time when you capture them.
6: The Roman troops are better in defence than attack: turn this fact to your advantage.

I hope I helped you to your start...Enjoy the glorious Roman units!

AnthoniusII
Megas Domestikos ton Scholon.

[Chyeaaaa111]

Im currently playing a 1450 campaign on 6.2 w/ RC/RR and BYGIV Enhanced, and let me tell you, this is the hardest campaign ever!! My advice would be to try every trick in the book to stay alive, and BUILD BALLISTA TOWERS ASAP. Seriously I think they are the only reason I'm alive. The other thing keeping me alive is I allied with the Papal States as soon as possible, and forged 2 marriage alliances with Hungary. For the past 50 years I've only been fighting the Turks which has made things very easy (relatively speaking of course).

Its almost 1500, and I have pretty much all of the "old" Byzantium holdings again, ie. Everything from Sofia and Durazzo to Nicaea all the way to Kutaisi. I even took Dyakibar (sp?) last turn so it looks like I'm on a roll now.

[Ichon]

Im currently playing a 1450 campaign on 6.2 w/ RC/RR and BYGIV Enhanced, and let me tell you, this is the hardest campaign ever!! My advice would be to try every trick in the book to stay alive, and BUILD BALLISTA TOWERS ASAP. Seriously I think they are the only reason I'm alive. The other thing keeping me alive is I allied with the Papal States as soon as possible, and forged 2 marriage alliances with Hungary. For the past 50 years I've only been fighting the Turks which has made things very easy (relatively speaking of course).

Its almost 1500, and I have pretty much all of the "old" Byzantium holdings again, ie. Everything from Sofia and Durazzo to Nicaea all the way to Kutaisi. I even took Dyakibar (sp?) last turn so it looks like I'm on a roll now.

Thankfully the 1450 campaign has most of Greece/Bulgaria Orthodox or it would be even more difficult. The strong Turkish armies all over the region take awhile to defeat- the walls of Constantinople and the 2 cities on the Greek peninsula allow some chances for survival but I agree that is one of the more difficult campaigns. Only late era Cumans or CS might be more difficult.

[Rolling Thunder]

1450 RR/RC campaign solutions:

1. Do not engage the Turks for at least ten, and preferably twenty years. Build up your ports, your wall defences and your unit-production capacities.

2. It is notable that the Turks have vast numbers of highly elite (gold and silver star) Janissary troops. These will destroy most of your units in an engagement without blinking. My solution to them is as follows:

To win in a melee, pikemen. Nothing beats pikemen from the front. Better yet, Swiss pikemen.
Hold them in the melee, then hit them in the rear with cavalry. Classic way to defeat elite troops.
Missile troops. Janissary heavy infantry have a very low defence against missile fire. Crossbows in particular seem to be their bane (and Gasmuli are free upkeep troops - the best free upkeep troops in the game), and, naturally, Siphonatres will simply obliterate the unit.

Dealing with their archers - medium cavalry. Don't send Cavilari or mounted Acrintae against their archers - your cavalry will die. Stratitoe, or better yet, Pronari are best used to clean out their elite archers.

Missile cavalry? Feather it with crossbows, and possibly Mourati as well.

[Rogal Dorn]

I'm doing fine in my Byzantine game. Focused on Hungary, Venice, and the Turks, so I've made strong alliances with Poland and Egypt to keep them off my back (especially Egypt).

Hungary will definitely become more of a problem later on, but once I have Turkey and Greece I'm sure I can handle them easily.