Gun Control!

**First Crusader** · October 10, 2005, 10:17 PM

If gun control is implemented, what do you think will happen? Please explain why you voted for what you voted for.

I think gun control is bad. Why? Because a law alone won't accomplish anything. All it will do is disarm the citizenry. The criminals will burry their guns in the backyard until the police sweeps are over and then start using them again. Guns can be smuggled, just like coke and liquor. We would have to stop all illegal immigration too, as Mexican smugglers would see a need for guns as a potential gold mine.

There is an even bigger danger. Rome eventually lost democracy and became a dictatorship. This will happen here, too, unless the people still have a means to fight unjust government. And by a "means of fighting", I don't mean letters to your congressman!

**Justinian** · October 10, 2005, 10:18 PM

The saying goes: Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns.

**First Crusader** · October 10, 2005, 10:19 PM

Right on, Justinian!

**imb39** · October 10, 2005, 10:24 PM

Clearly this is, effectively an American issue - though Brazil is currently having a referendum about gun control.

My views are fairly simple - if you want to cut down on the number of gun deaths, then you have to get rid of them. This fallacy about dictatorship - Britain has been a democracy a hell of a lot longer than America, but we don't find the need to keep guns - indeed after a couple of massacres (Dunblane, being the defining one), gun laws were tightened up so much that we may have the tightest laws regarding these weapons. It is just paranoia. When America has a tragedy (Columbine), the answer is... more guns. Crazy.

Of course, a change from gun society to non gun society will be painful -but it is a measure of the lack of trust within your own great country that you even feel the need for those evil things. Crime will go up alot initially but will probably decline - it will end up being less violent over time.

Can someone explain why anybody needs something more powerful than a handgun. Perhaps a rifle for hunting - but why on earth does anyone need an assault rifle? This is just so stupid...

**Justinian** · October 10, 2005, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by imb39

Perhaps a rifle for hunting - but why on earth does anyone need an assault rifle? This is just so stupid...

Firstly, most people who own assault rifles aren't criminals, probably because there are very, very strict laws regarding them. Secondly, assault rifles were only legalized a few years ago in the US unless I was sniffing crack back then. Third, a lot of people who own assault rifles are ex-military; fourth, maybe people just want to have assault rifles for the coolness factor of firing them, and are quite responsible with them.

Besides, if a criminal breaks into your house and tries to rape your daughter defended by his piddly little handgun, and you can respond with an AK-47... well, that's a plus.

**imb39** · October 10, 2005, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by Justinian

Firstly, most people who own assault rifles aren't criminals, probably because there are very, very strict laws regarding them. Secondly, assault rifles were only legalized a few years ago in the US unless I was sniffing crack back then. Third, a lot of people who own assault rifles are ex-military; fourth, maybe people just want to have assault rifles for the coolness factor of firing them, and are quite responsible with them.

Besides, if a criminal breaks into your house and tries to rape your daughter defended by his piddly little handgun, and you can respond with an AK-47... well, that's a plus.

Well, I never inferred that anyone who had an assault rifle was a criminal. I did say they were crazy! Actually, the laws legalising them crazy...

tbh, a criminal will probably try and take you out before you got to use your uber mega powerful ultra magnificent phallic symbol.

**Polemides** · October 10, 2005, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by imb39

Can someone explain why anybody needs something more powerful than a handgun. Perhaps a rifle for hunting - but why on earth does anyone need an assault rifle? This is just so stupid...

Handguns are used to commit the majority of crimes involving guns in the United States. A distant second are shotguns. Assault rifles make up roughly 1-2% of firearms used in crimes here. Now, when I say assault rifles, I'm talking about civilian rifles that are semi-automatic only. As for fully automatic guns (which are legal to own as long as you get an extensive background check and pay a tax to aquire a class III license) there is only one case in the United States where someone who legally owned one commited a crime with it, and he was a police officer.

I own two Chinese made assault rifles, an SKS and a MAK90. I have never commited a crime with these rifles. I have used the MAK90 to scare off a prowler. Right there, it paid for itself, and I consider it one of the best investments I've ever made. You can't put a price on the saftey of your loved ones.

I don't know what it's like in the UK, but the SCOTUS has ruled that it is not the job of the police to protect the citizenry, only to bring law breakers to trial. Police response is not fast enough when you have a determined attacker. By the time they arrive, you could very well be dead already and the killer long gone. If you ask me what I reach for first if I suspect someone is breaking into my house, don't expect me to say the phone.

Britain once had pretty much no gun control. They began to introduce laws to keep guns out of the hands of the Irish originally, and slowly over many decades, they eventually took gun rights away from everyone. It is quite sad, considering the idea of right to self defense in the modern sense spawned in England. If you have some time on your hands, I suggest you read this essay here: http://www.davekopel.com/2A/LawRev/SlipperySlope.htm
It details how England went from no gun control to the Draconian state of today.

Originally Posted by imb39

But an assault rifle will do nothing other than kill someone, surely.

Aside from the deterrant factor, that's what it's suppose to do. What practical purpose do handguns have? Hunting? I think not. They are designed to kill people.

**bigfootedfred** · October 11, 2005, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by Polemides

Britain once had pretty much no gun control. They began to introduce laws to keep guns out of the hands of the Irish originally, and slowly over many decades, they eventually took gun rights away from everyone. It is quite sad, considering the idea of right to self defense in the modern sense spawned in England. If you have some time on your hands, I suggest you read this essay here: http://www.davekopel.com/2A/LawRev/SlipperySlope.htm
It details how England went from no gun control to the Draconian state of today.

im sorry.

i just find this VERY funny

Draconian haha.
i feel no need to own a gun.
what the hell would we need guns for exactly?

only an american would sugest that "gun control" was a restriction of freedom

well technically it is
by the same token, murder is a restiction of freedom...

haha
no, i like our gun laws just the way they are.
Draconian haha

this link you made
is EVEN FUNNYER

im really sorry.
im not trying to bellite you or anyhting.
i just find this BLOODY Funny :laughing:

"the evil british goverment dont let there people have guns!"
hehe.

ahhh.
cheers.

**Bwaho** · October 11, 2005, 05:48 AM

The saying goes: Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns.

Maybe so. What's interesting is the fact that countries with stricter gun laws have lower death rates with firearms, for example: Japan

**ThiudareiksGunthigg** · October 11, 2005, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by Bwaho

Maybe so. What's interesting is the fact that countries with stricter gun laws have lower death rates with firearms, for example: Japan

And Australia. Whereas the US has a gun homicide rate up there with Third World war zones. Hmmmm ...

But it's a 'right' apparently. And it makes them 'safer' apparently. Some 'safety' ...

**First Crusader** · October 11, 2005, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Bwaho

Maybe so. What's interesting is the fact that countries with stricter gun laws have lower death rates with firearms, for example: Japan

So you have ONE example of this. Try to name a country with gun control that doesn't have a radically different culture, like Britain. But gun control has done more harm than good over there, so you can't name that one.

**random hero** · October 20, 2005, 09:12 PM

I think strict Gun control would not solve much in the first place, with more "bad" people having illegal guns. On top of that, I think it would cause the crime rate to increase further by opening up a major illegal gun trade business in the United States, causing criminal organizations to grow.

**Mylae** · October 26, 2005, 08:41 AM

in Italy there's gun control: you can have it, but for hunting or similar, and police have to know that you have a gun, which type, etc; obviously criminals have illegal guns. But normal people says: "why I have to need a gun?". Guns are low diffused. And in fact, it's really rare that people die by shooting, when happens it's sometimes intra-family murdering with hunting guns or criminals that shoot theirselves. There's always a great scandal in medias if someone die by shooting...
nevertheless, Italy is the best seller of weapons in the world.

**leeho730** · October 26, 2005, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Mylae

in Italy there's gun control: you can have it, but for hunting or similar, and police have to know that you have a gun, which type, etc; obviously criminals have illegal guns. But normal people says: "why I have to need a gun?". Guns are low diffused. And in fact, it's really rare that people die by shooting, when happens it's sometimes intra-family murdering with hunting guns or criminals that shoot theirselves.

And in here the police know where we LIVE... if we move to a new address then we have to tell them within 3 months.

Originally Posted by Mylae

There's always a great scandal in medias if someone die by shooting...
nevertheless, Italy is the best seller of weapons in the world.

Here as well. If I storm a dairy shop with a shotgun (and murder the worker) it will be made a nationwide news (it did this year). Seriously. Possibly with national manhunt as well.

We don't mind people having assault rifles (or military-style semi-automatic rifles and we need E endoresement but is possible to obtain special licence for them) as long as they've got a steel concrete room to secure these firearms against theft.

**Fianóglach** · October 11, 2005, 03:07 AM

Britain once had pretty much no gun control. They began to introduce laws to keep guns out of the hands of the Irish originally

...That worked out well.

I myself am a Firearms enthusiast. I collect WW1 and WW2 Rifles, restore them, and enjoy shooting them. I'll have to sell them off before I go back to Belfast of course, but I love Rifles. I dont like modern assault rifles much, I like wood, iron, and the cold steel!

**Redfoxx** · October 11, 2005, 03:26 AM

im all for civilians owning guns, i myself have a nice collection of them. Not only do i feel safer with an mk23 right next to me when i go to bed, but have you ever fired an Ak47? that thing feels so powerful its great to shoot.

**First Crusader** · October 10, 2005, 10:30 PM

Mainly, because they are heck of cool! But if you are a member of one of the "minuteman" militias forming on the southern border, a decent gun can really come in handy when fighting mexican smugglers invading your neighborhood*.

*I have nothing against Mexicans. I just don't dislike Mexican illegals and criminals anymore than I dislike American criminals.

Concerning gun control rates: could someone do me a favor and post some statistics on this? From what I have heard, the crime rate has continued unabated after gun control was implemented in Britain. This makes sense. The only thing keeping American muggers from having a mugging orgie is the fear of coming face to face with a sawed off shotgun. When the citizens lose their guns, this fear goes away, and the muggers can now mug in safety!