Noobish Ignoramus asking for help (Koinon Hellenon)

[Darth Pooh]

Hello, everybody,
I´ve recently bought RTW Anthology and been having great time playing vanilla or some minor mods. Now I´ve been lured to EB, but alas! I´ve been trying to play Koinon Hellenon but to no avail. My economy sucks (even after disbanding the navy) and I simply can´t disband all the troops for the mighty Macedonian army comes and wreaks havoc in my cities. I´ve read some posts here in the forums and it seems to me I´m doing something wrong - all you guys are able to build your economy and use all the building slots every season while I´m lucky if I can afford to pay for a single building. I´d love to have some success with KH, can somebody help, please please, pretty please, with a cherry on top?

[Watchman]

Go on a rampage, demolish as much of the Mac powerbase and grab as much territory as you can ASAP. More or less the rule of thumb with every faction that starts out in contact (nevermind war) with other factions, though Baktria may be an exception to that.

[Darth Pooh]

Go on a rampage, demolish as much of the Mac powerbase and grab as much territory as you can ASAP. More or less the rule of thumb with every faction that starts out in contact (nevermind war) with other factions, though Baktria may be an exception to that.

Thanks for your advice, but how to even deal with Macedonia when their starting armies are huge as hell and I can´t afford to build more units? (I told you, I´m a noob )
I should say I´m pretty good in battles (been playing MTW and M2TW for a long time), but there are just too many of these Macedonians ...

[Watchman]

Ganbare ne.
Though I seem to recall my last succesful attempt (this being a while ago) involved positively ridiculous amounts of flanking and abusing the regenerating FM bodyguards to the hilt...

[Horse Archer]

Just remember the Maks have it as hard as you do. Pyrrhos Aikiades is at their capital Pella in the beginning of the game, so you might want to wait and see if they withdraw to fight him before trying anything too risky. But the general rule is, try to concentrate your forces as much as you can without leaving your cities undefended, buy as many units as you can on the first turn, and remember that the AI is dumb.

[Faramir D'Andunie]

An interesting start KH has, but not too hard. Have found a couple of strategies for a successfull start with them.

1st one.
Bring the army home from Krete and attack the Maks near Corinth at the very first turn( doable if you split and abuse your fleet for quick movement). Very hard fight, you will be facing two armies and need to quickly defeat the one before the other arrives to stand a chance. Corinth is yours, and you can use your troops in Athens to fight back any more Mak invasions, or even move and take Chalkis as well.

You won't have to worry for the Maks after that for at least 4 turns, they have to face Epirus up north as well, at worst some silly attempt to besiege Athens.

2nd.
Send one of your generals from Sparta in Krete to assist your King in the siege. Do not assault it, rather wait it out and defeat them when they sally forth. In mainland close your gates and and prepare for the coming attacks, both Sparta and Athens will be attacked, but your infantry generals do wonders.

Once Krete is yours bring the King back and attack Corinth (ideally with a smaller force that will make the enemy sally forth rather than assault the stone walls).

3rd.
Screw the mainland, we can't hold it. Destroy most of our cities, load the troops to the ships and migrate to new shores. There are quite a lot of decent options for a migration. The rebel city near Rhodes, Syracouse, Chersonisos in the black sea, even Massilia can work.

Oh and

I do not agree with disbanding all of the navy. I make as much as I can from the ships in the first turn and keep 1/3. It can really help with movement. If you can have it engage an enemy fleet and loose strenght for lower upkeep even better.

Don't recruit way too much, but rather disband what is too expensive and replace with affordable units. Those hoplitai in Athens, sorry too expensive. Having a Spartan family member meet a glorious death can also work.
You can sell ceasfires on your enemies, like Arche Seleceia, for at least 2000 as well.
Oh and you don't have to blitz your enemies quickly. Build a strong base, a decent army that you can actually afford and then see what you will do.

A couple of worthy notes for KH troops.
- Do not underestimate your Hoplitai haploi (militia hoplites). In guard mode they can hold their own for quite a while, and give a nasty suprise to enemy cavalry.
- Make decent use of your sword units, since they make excellent killers (spear units have penalties in infantry combat) and are so few. Peltastai and Iphikratean Hoplitai (they do have a sword secondary weapon).
- Get a javelin cavalry unit as soon as possible, it is annoying to rout the enemy and see half of his force escape because your infantry is too tired and slow to catch em.

[Darth Pooh]

Big thanks to everyone (especially Mr. Faramir ) for their advice. I´ll give it another try and this time I SHALL SUCCEED!!! Onwards, sons of Achilles!

[torongill]

One last advice: Don't attack the phalanx head-on.

[Darth Pooh]

Well, I´ve obeyed all the advice given here by the noble forumites and I´m playing the game of my life What a marvellous mod!!! I love KH infantry generals, they just rock! When I click on my general unit and the soldiers in red cloaks shout out "Spartiates!" I almost faint with pleasure This is too good to be true!

A question though: Should I remove my capital from Sparta to Athens?

[Faramir D'Andunie]

Capital locations is not something that should bother you for a while. It matters when your faction gets too large and you have to worry for happiness penalties caused by distance from capital. Though you can always move your capital to whatever city you fancy in the start.

One last advice: Don't attack the phalanx head-on.

I don't agree completely with that. I would rather say do not expect to kill the phalanx with head-on attacks (Although if you make sure some heavy units runs into the enemy pikes and reaches the soldiers it might work but you may get casualties you won't like). Usefull to have something attack the phalanx with guard mode to tie em up while someone from the rear kills em. Usually have a "better" unit holding the front to prevent the phalanx shifting to attack the rear force. Not that it won't work, just will give casualties.


You should know that the family members with Spartiatai bodyguard is not the normal, (pretty sure the next generation had the usual bodyguard). Not that the usual bodyguards have anything to envy from their spartan counterparts that is.

[Scipio Africanus Maximus]

Well, I´ve obeyed all the advice given here by the noble forumites and I´m playing the game of my life What a marvellous mod!!! I love KH infantry generals, they just rock! When I click on my general unit and the soldiers in red cloaks shout out "Spartiates!" I almost faint with pleasure This is too good to be true!

A question though: Should I remove my capital from Sparta to Athens?

I'm glad you're enjoying. They are my favorite faction of all. As per moving the capital, it all depends on your preference. If you roleplay a mighty, Spartan-led Greece, keep it at Sparta. If you want a more democratic power, move it to Athens. You can even move it to Rhodes and roleplay a wealthy trading empire with an all but untouchable capital. The possibilities are literally endless.

[Darth Pooh]

Faramir: Thank you for your invaluable advice, but please tell me what exactly does the guard mode do? I simply don´t know

Scipio Africanus: When I get home from work, I´ll definitely read your KH AAR through

[Scipio Africanus Maximus]

I hope you enjoy.

Guard mode causes the unit to hold its position and simply defend. It won't chase a unit that falls back or routs.

[nvm]

For some reason falling back to Sparta (which i didn`t want to lose at all costs for roleplaying purpose) worked for me. Eventually i succeeded grabbing all the 3 cities near it.

And for some reason, Halicarnassus has joined me. Can anyone tell, why?

[Darth Pooh]

And for some reason, Halicarnassus has joined me. Can anyone tell, why?

It happened to me, too, and triggered the war with the Seleucids. I hope I´ll chase them off

[torongill]

Most likely because it's affiliated with your faction and the faction that ruled it allowed a revolt to take the settlement.

[Faramir D'Andunie]

Faramir: Thank you for your invaluable advice, but please tell me what exactly does the guard mode do? I simply don´t know

A unit in guard mode, as said above, will attempt to keep its formation first and foremost. Meaning it will fight enemy units that enter its threat range and won't break the formation to attempt to attack/fight. It also will not try to chase after routing enemy units. Usefull ability when you want an enemy unit to tie down something but not kill it. Also units in guard mode tend not to get exhausted as fast.

Yea there is also a chance that revolting settlements will join factions which have the same culture. Usual examples as cities like Halicarnassus revolting to KH, Ankyra to Aedui or Averni, Palmyra to Sab'yn and the like.

[Scipio Africanus Maximus]

Yea there is also a chance that revolting settlements will join factions which have the same culture. Usual examples as cities like Halicarnassus revolting to KH, Ankyra to Aedui or Averni, Palmyra to Sab'yn and the like.

Pergamon, Syrakousai, and, IIRC, Chersonesos also revolt to the KH. I think one or two of the regions south of Ptolemaioi start position revolt to Sab'yn as well. And I think I once saw Kyrenia in grey, so it may rebel to the Seleukids.

[Drewski]

Faramir gave some interesting options, but here's another (which I always do)..

Siege Kydonia with the army on Krete, build a ram. Don't touch Athens for now. Move all in Sparta minus worst unit (skirmishers are NOT worst unit, Levy Hoplites are in this case, as you have Generals for Infantry) and combine with field army to immediately siege Corinth (build tower and ladder)..recruit merc Cretian Archers for this mini army. Scrub a theatre to get enough cash to build coastal clearance in Sparta. Disband all but one boat, disband all but cheapest unit in Rhodes. Set Taxes to V High in all but Sparta (lowest). End turn.

Now it can go different ways. Krete army has never yet sallied so you'll have to fight them...not too tough, as you're General will do most of the killing. Corinth again isn't really a problem, sometimes it's a siege battle sometimes a fleld battle. Now bring everyone back except cheapest garrison unit from Krete and combine near Athens, with Corinth army, and everyone except weakest unit from Athens. 9/10 times that Mak stack moves away. If not, you have all your guys in one army.

Take Chalkis (probably full of levy fodder).

Next turn push towards Demetrias, and you're first real battle (which by the way, if you lose, you might as well start again)...

Probably the toughest way, but the key to me, is speed, which stops the ai from recruting (which you can't really do in the very first few turns).

[Jaxin]

This worked for me first time...

Gap home from Krete to Athens
Disband ships, disband Rhodes stuff
I got peace with Macedonia, then traded Chalkis for 1k x 5 turns
The Selucids gave me Sardis for peace.
Now you have safety and money
Build up army, take Corinth (small Garrison)
Make a move on Demestris, and their main army will storm you on the field (use archers and miltia)
Boom, whole area sussed.

For lasting peace pay the ai like 100 a turn free