searching for information - night fighting during the II WW

[cegorach]

I found some sources about Soviet and Japanese troops. There are of course webpages dealing with german army, however much of the rest is still a mystery to me.

I am looking for information about training before the war started, night fighting tactics employed by various armies especially British, French, American and less important - Polish, Italian, Greek, Romanian etc.


Basic questions to think about:

- how often soldiers trained fighting and matching during the night,

- how important it was in their countries' doctrines or just tactical training,

- were there any attempts to test entire divisions during military exercises?

- how much prepared were armies and soldiers to fight at night and how much of later, wartime activity was improvised at start only to receive better treatment after first months/years of war,

- night fighting equipement and its introduction, especially more advanced types (targeting systems for armoured vehicles for example),


Finally maybe some examples where regular units were negaged in this form of combat which could be helpful. Especially those involving ordinary units - not commandos etc.

I am more concerned about battles or important skirmishes than night raids which were common.

Any help would be nice.

[Xanthippus of Sparta]

On Soviet night-fighting, during WWII, the absolute best example of a battle I can point you towards is the opening stage of the Battle of Berlin.

16th April 1945.

The Soviets attacked the Nazis very early that morning.

At 4 AM three flares were fired up. The Soviets then turned on over 140 searchlights. Then, three green flares were fired, and thus began one of the the greatest Artillery barrages in history. 400 Katayusha rocket launchers, along with 10,000 artilery pieces of all types (actual light and heavy artillery, mortars, SP guns, etc.) opened up on the German lines around the river Oder.

The Soviets used searchlights, many of them stripped from Moscow's defenses, to blind the Germans. Plus, every T-34 tank switched on its headlights for the assault. This had mixed results as the Soviet tanks were in many cases illuminated as targets for the German gunners.

[Azog 150]

Also look at the Airborne Operations on D-Day. It was partly a result of the 101st being so badly scattered (Although the British 6th Airborne and US 82nd landed more or less on target) that large scale Night Drops were abandoned for the rest of the war.

You could also look at the various Commando raids across Europe- many of which were night raids

The initial stages of El Alamein were conducted at night (although it was quite bright due to a full moon). Also Operation Supercharge (Which was basically the main attack) began at night at 1 a.m.



So there is a few battles you can look at. I don't really know much about how operations were conducted at night or how strategy differed though.

[Hanny]

http://www.cgsc.edu/carl/resources/csi/csi.asp#reports
10 is one your after

[cegorach]

Excellent Hanny!

Now I have detailed studies about US, Japanese, Soviet and German armies.

Something about any from the following woud be nice: French, Italian, Romanian, Hungarian, Greek, Finnish, Polish and for Britain and the Commonwealth.

Although Azog 150 provided some examples more detailed sources - studies, manuals - would be great.

[hellheaven1987]

Night fighting was extremely common during Second Sino-Japanese War, started by Chinese. The reason was largely because of lacking of firepower for Chinese units that forced Chinese had to use night combat to minimize the risk be exploited by Japanese artilleries (it is notable that Chinese continued using this tactic during Korean War, and Vietnamese also used same tactic during two Indochina Wars. Lastly, most gureilla warfare today focus on night raid, which appear even in Afghanistan today). Later on Japanese learned this tactic and performed it well during Philippine, Malaya and Burma campaign (Chinese force in Burma campaign, 1944, had noticed that Japanese would use night raid when they were outgunned. It happened also in Pacific campaign as most banzai charges were happened during the night).

In Europe theatre, a large number of battles on Italy were using night cover as surprised element. Night operation also dominated North Africa theatre, particularly for Axis since the lacking of air cover (Liddell Hart, in his book about WWII, states one of serious weakness for British armoured divisions durng North Africa campaign was refusing of night march). Lastly, it is notable that Battle of Bulge was started at night, because Wehrmechat wanted to achieve maximum surprise at inital stage.

[Jaketh]

the germans actually developed the worlds first night vision in WW2, the scopes of the MP44 had night vision scopes attached to them

[Watchman]

the germans actually developed the worlds first night vision in WW2, the scopes of the MP44 had night vision scopes attached to them

That would be the Zielgerät 1229 "Vampir" system. Clunky looking thing too, if I may say so:


The Americans had a comparable system which was field-tested on the M3 carbine (a purpose-designed variant of the M1); not much less of a clunker I'd say...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Gaius Baltar]

The US and Japanese navy engaged in several actions at night during the Guadalcanal campaign. Not sure if naval actions were what you were looking for. Anyway, heres a few links,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_B...of_Guadalcanal
http://www.history.army.mil/brochures/72-8/72-8.htm
http://www.ww2pacific.com/savo.html

Just history, not much in terms of night fighting doctrine.

[cegorach]

Let's stick to ground warfare, shall we?

Anyone can add something about smaller armies e.g. Finnish or Hungarian?

[hellheaven1987]

Let's stick to ground warfare, shall we?

Anyone can add something about smaller armies e.g. Finnish or Hungarian?

I have heard that Finnish used a lot of night raids against Soviet, to wear down the enemy number and cut off the supplyline. It was quite successed in northern front and caused several Soviet divisions completely eliminated.

[cegorach]

I have heard that Finnish used a lot of night raids against Soviet, to wear down the enemy number and cut off the supplyline. It was quite successed in northern front and caused several Soviet divisions completely eliminated.

I guess that could serve as an example of defensive night tactic as opposed to the Japanese and the Chinese, or the Poles.

[Petrov]

I know Geurilla warfare in France during WW2 Took place mostly at night? sabotage and Espionage, And the Ocasional Knock on the hatch and drop in a 'nade!

[Watchman]

In the Winter War eliminating Soviet divisions was done by encircling them, the last I checked. (Encirclement is known as "motti" in Finnish; IIRC the word is actually an old measurement.) It of course rather helped that at the time Soviet military planning was cartoonisly bad so those hapless divisions for all intents and purposes blundered directly into large-scale ambushes...

[Kagemusha]

In the Winter War eliminating Soviet divisions was done by encircling them, the last I checked. (Encirclement is known as "motti" in Finnish; IIRC the word is actually an old measurement.) It of course rather helped that at the time Soviet military planning was cartoonisly bad so those hapless divisions for all intents and purposes blundered directly into large-scale ambushes...

The same thing were done in continuation war.In matter of fact the last battle of Continuation war Battle of Ilomantsi ended in a Motti. Motti is not night fighting tactic per see. Its combination of tactics.

[cegorach]

For the purpose of this thread the question would be how important was night fighting for 'motti' to end as a success.

[Kagemusha]

For the purpose of this thread the question would be how important was night fighting for 'motti' to end as a success.

The basic Night attack concept really doesnt apply up north like Finland. During midsummer there is hardly any "night" that would limit vision, while during middle of winter Its dark as night already 4pm.Also because of the covered terrain spotting enemy movements was hard to begin with. So i would not put much emphasis in classic "night attacks" as crucial tactics.Offensive manouvers were conducted based on good situation to do so rather then certain weather or daylight conditions.

[cegorach]

OK, so for 'Motti' night wasn't so important.One thing is cleared, I can move on.



@Watchman

Avoiding enemy air power was equally important. In adiditon some armies exploited nighttime to disengage when conducting fighting retreat (e.g. Poles in 1939).
Night seems very important or just very useful in infiltration assaults - in addition to Chinese and Japanese also for Greeks against Italians.

[Watchman]

Not overmuch, from what I gather. Night attacks were used when necessary or convenient, but the tactic primarily relied on making good use on terrain and the cross-country mobility of the comparatively lightly equipped Finnish forces. Basic light-infantry stuff really.
Though it's been awhile since I last read detailed studies on those battles.

From what I understand, wasn't the general main purpose of night attacks (at least as far as infantry units were concerned) - besides surprise of course - being able to get close to the enemy positions without getting shredded by MGs and artillery ?

[Spartacus the Irish]

The initial attacks during Operation Totalize in August 1944 were undertaken at night, with searchlights directed at low cloud to create an 'artificial moonlight', as well as artillery and air-dropped flares and tracers used in directing the Canadian, British and Polish forces.

Operation Chariot at St. Nazaire in March 1942 was undertaken at night - very generally, British amphibious doctrine was to land at the enemies' weakest point at night, whilst US doctrine was to engage the enemies' strongest point by day.

I also believe some Panther tanks (and probably other marks of German tank) were equipped with infrared equipment and searchlights (designated with 'Uhu').