Colonisation of Magna Graecia

[Lysimachus]

When the Greeks sailed to Italy, did they come across an already civilised, structured society or were the Romans at the time what would have been considered inferior to the Greeks? Secondly if it was the latter, would the Greek colonisation (and introduction of new technology) have resulted in their own undoing (Roman conquest)?

[removeduser_487563287433]

When the Greeks sailed to Italy, did they come across an already civilised, structured society or were the Romans at the time what would have been considered inferior to the Greeks? Secondly if it was the latter, would the Greek colonisation (and introduction of new technology) have resulted in their own undoing (Roman conquest)?

Impossible to say with any certainty. There would have been existing civilisations, certainly. Take a look at Sicily, where although the coastal lands had been divided up by Phoenician and Greek colonies we know that there were Sicilian cities in the interior.

Magna Graecia were exceptionally ancient Greek colonies. The bulk of the expansion occured in the Greek Dark Age, or just after it, where we of course know very little, and the traditional population centres of the Greek mainland were severely depopulated or in some cases abandoned altogether.

You bring up Romans but the traditional founding of Rome would have been contemporary with the founding of the oldest Greek colonies in Italy. Talking about the introduction of Greek technology is a massive simplification. Italy was the centre of the Meditterean, not a backwater, with cities, trade and diplomatic links and an already sophisticated and powerful civilisation in the form of the Etruscans.

[bleach]

Italy was the centre of the Meditterean, not a backwater, with cities, trade and diplomatic links and an already sophisticated and powerful civilisation in the form of the Etruscans.

Two problems I see with this view.

1. The Etruscan civilization was located in northern Italy, Magna Graecia was well south of Etruria, so stating that the Etruscans had an advanced society says nothing about peoples in S. Italy.

2. The Etruscans were probably colonists themselves from Anatolia, not native Italians, and they relatively recent arrivals at the time when the earliest MG cities were being founded.

[KaRoU23]

Well not exactly....The colonization of Italy (or also known as the 2nd Greek Colonization) did not result to a depopulation as you claim...The reasons that made the colonization were: a) The massive population of Greece.They were so many that they could not all of them have supplies
b) Search for new trading posts
c) A lack of metal supplies
d)The internal crisis in main Greece
e) The vast knowledge of Greeks of the sea routes and where to settle down(remember the knowledge they had from the 1st colonization)

As about the Etruscan civilization, the "sophisticated" civilization was limited in metalworking and figurative sculpture in terracotta....The cities, i mean the buildings, had adopted the Greek style of Architecture.Moreover their art were too limited in religion.Well some scholars also see similarities to the Urartu kingdom, placed in Lake Van, in Armenia.On the other, the Greeks of Archaic Greece (800- 480 bc) were already adept in scultures(kouros, kore f.e)...Some examples of the Greek influence is the Sarcophagus of the Spouses, Apollo of Veii, and Chimera of Arezzo...

The last point of my opinion is that Etruscan really excelled at wall-painting, the highlight (together with the construction of sarcofagi) but the real developent of their civilization started with the influence of the Greek traders

[removeduser_487563287433]

Well not exactly....The colonization of Italy (or also known as the 2nd Greek Colonization) did not result to a depopulation as you claim...

Didn't say it did.

As about the Etruscan civilization, the "sophisticated" civilization was limited in metalworking and figurative sculpture in terracotta....The cities, i mean the buildings, had adopted the Greek style of Architecture.

Not the case. Etruscan architecture had several benefits that Greek architecture lacked. Arches, most notably, which were enthusiastically taken up by the Romans

Moreover their art were too limited in religion.

What?

[Manuel I Komnenos]

I agree with you my friend.. I think at least 50% of the people who left Greece where political refuges.. They weren't welcomed by the governments of their cities and they were made to leave.

The Etruscans had developed a nice civilization but they were heavily influenced by the Greek one.. They took even the hoplite phalanx from the Greeks..

[KaRoU23]

Exactly....Ironically enough, the Roman Triarii(of the Camillan age most of it) took heavy influence from the Etruscan army which were heavy influenced by the Greek hoplite phalanx...

[KaRoU23]

Firstly i would like to comment that the Etruscan architecture was a mixture of the local and the Greek one, a type of architecture that was used by the Romans later...For the one u didn't understand about religion, is that many works of the Etruscans had to do with religious things(like the sarcophagi)

[removeduser_487563287433]

Firstly i would like to comment that the Etruscan architecture was a mixture of the local and the Greek one, a type of architecture that was used by the Romans later...For the one u didn't understand about religion, is that many works of the Etruscans had to do with religious things(like the sarcophagi)

I don't see how that makes them anything but uniform with other contemporary art.

[Getwulf]

When the Greeks sailed to Italy, did they come across an already civilised, structured society or were the Romans at the time what would have been considered inferior to the Greeks? Secondly if it was the latter, would the Greek colonisation (and introduction of new technology) have resulted in their own undoing (Roman conquest)?

I'm not entirely sure as to what you mean by this...?

"When the Greeks..." Well... When did the Greeks sail to Italy??? Are you referring to the Peloponnesian War 431-404 BC when Athens sent an expeditionary force to Syracuse in Sicily...? Are you referring to some other time period...?

[Manuel I Komnenos]

I'm not entirely sure as to what you mean by this...?

"When the Greeks..." Well... When did the Greeks sail to Italy??? Are you referring to the Peloponnesian War 431-404 BC when Athens sent an expeditionary force to Syracuse in Sicily...? Are you referring to some other time period...?

He is referring to the fact that South Italy and Sicily was colonized by Greeks from the Greek mainland and had a population of 2.000.000 Greeks even before 431 BC..

[Getwulf]

He is referring to the fact that South Italy and Sicily was colonized by Greeks from the Greek mainland and had a population of 2.000.000 Greeks even before 431 BC..

I'm not too familiar with that. Perhaps this concept needs to be defined further in this argument. This is new information for me. Can you please elaborate?

[

[Lysimachus]

I'm not too familiar with that. Perhaps this concept needs to be defined further in this argument. This is new information for me. Can you please elaborate?

Basically, Greece became overpopulated so people sailed westwards to Italy and Sicily.

[Getwulf]

Basically, Greece became overpopulated so people sailed westwards to Italy and Sicily.

Can you define a time period and some regions...? Some sources...? What you're stating is not common knowledge, at least not for me.

[Ephialtes]

He talks about the colonization

[Seleucos of Olympia]

He's obviously referring the the previous colonizations that founded cities such as Syracuse (that the Athenians fought in the war you mention).

[Giorgos]

The Etruscans borrowed heavily from the ancient Greek civilization, as it's obvious from what is left of their civilization

[Lysimachus]

730BC onwards - Eastern Sicily (e.g Syracuse, Gela, Etna) and Southern Italy (e.g Tarentum, Croton). I'm pretty sure you'll be able to find a map of Italy yourself.

[Getwulf]

I'm pretty sure you'll be able to find a map of Italy yourself.

Indeed, indeed...

[Seleucos of Olympia]

This should provide you with the basics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonies_in_antiquity