Silver Shield Legionnaires

[Aegrim]

I actually came to RTW from playing ME2, and didn't play much as the romans. Legionnaires i presumed were the backbone of the army, in the center holding the line with spearmen on the flanks to take out cavalry.

However when playing Hellenistic factions, you basically only have spearmen (hoplites/pikemen), and one long line of them at that, so now I'm wondering how i'm meant to add these legionnaires to my formations.

Are they better at the center of my line, to charge and clash with the enemy, or for more mobile and flanking?

I suppose if they're better in the center i can go a bit more aggressive, i always try to play a defensive battle and let the enemy come to my line since hoplites aren't too mobile compared to normal troops.

[Prince_Alexander]

It depends on your enemy's army really. I tend to put my Legionnaires on the flanks. That way my line of pikemen hold off the center and then I try to take down the flanks with my Legionnaires. But remember, if you don't have any cavalry use the same linemen tactics because all your enemy will do (If he's experienced enough) will go right past your immobile hoplites and straight for your Legionnaires. But remember, it all depends on the situation. Just like Aristotle taught Alexander, "Every situation is different. Never assume something. Look it over first." Or something along those lines I hope I helped you.

[Genius of the Restoration]

You'd usually want the phalanx units in the centre if you're using a stright battle line. Reason being precisely as you said: they aren't too mobile. A legionaire can respond to being flanked reasonably easily, but a phalanx takes time to turn around and unless they get there, they fight a lot worse than a legion would. Phalanx units are great from the front, so it's usually better to have them in the centre, where they don't need to worry about their flanks.

[Entropy Judge]

Legionnaires i presumed were the backbone of the army, in the center holding the line with spearmen on the flanks to take out cavalry.

For the in-game Romans, the Legionaires *are* the army - Triarii come too late (as you get them, unless you've conquered some place with the infrastructure already in place, you're coming up on the Marian Reforms) and Auxilia suck too much. You're pretty much using only Legion units and mercenaries as your infantry force.

Are they better at the center of my line, to charge and clash with the enemy, or for more mobile and flanking?

They tend to be better on the flanks. As the others stated, the SS Pikes can hold the line very well, but they're vulnerable to flanking, which the Legionaires can guard (your own Cavalry/Cataphracts should be doing your flanking).

[Warhammster]

You'd usually want the phalanx units in the centre if you're using a stright battle line. Reason being precisely as you said: they aren't too mobile. A legionaire can respond to being flanked reasonably easily, but a phalanx takes time to turn around and unless they get there, they fight a lot worse than a legion would. Phalanx units are great from the front, so it's usually better to have them in the centre, where they don't need to worry about their flanks.

A phalanx turns in a split second unless you use very thin lines

[|Sith| Max]

A phalanx turns in a split second unless you use very thin lines

yet never fast enough to prevent the cataphracts from raping them.

[Warhammster]

yet never fast enough to prevent the cataphracts from raping them.

Yes they can unless one got reflexes like a turtle.

NightEye[/URL]]And half of the time they'll route before they'll turn their spears, unless they're Silver shield Pikes and even then they'll have a hard time.

They turn in a micro second unless you use some thin formation, a pike unit that is between 6-7 units deep on normal size got no problem at all with turning around to face cavalry in good time.

Biggest weakness of phalanx compared to legionaries are they the phalanx is easily destroyed by pilum and archers since they only got 6 armor and 2 shield.

[|Sith| Max]

Yes they can unless one got reflexes like a turtle.

Not when i have the cataphracts. Heheheh

[Dave Strider]

Besides, armies with a lot of calvary units will have little infantry, which means they have no chance of holding the line making their calvary very very vulnerable.

If I have more than 10 units of Cavalry I take no Infantry, it slows my armies down and if I already have that much cav then I can out-manuever my enemy.

In fact I have a very successful Parthian Campaign in the RS mod, two armies made entirely out of cavalry, both have lost less than 50 men and have each killed over 4,000

[Genius of the Restoration]

It still aint as quick as a legion though aye

[NightEye]

And half of the time they'll route before they'll turn their spears, unless they're Silver shield Pikes and even then they'll have a hard time.

Also set the legionnaires on Fire at will to soften up the enemy first and try to put at least two units of Legionnaires on each flank.

And place missile units and/or the general behind the phalanx, the AI has a tendency of ignoring anything else to get at these units. Half of the time they'll send units right into a phalanx to get them.

[caesar100]

When I play as the Seleucids, I have them on my flank behind my pikemen to outflank my enemy, which works wonders agains barbarians, who where almost no cloths, let alone ARMOUR.

[... where did it run?]

Catas ftw! D:< they even break trough weaker spearmen in frontal charge almost without loses. (yet, I don't recomend you do test this in multiplayer). So what if the phalanax turns? It can't turn without breaking formation. And if they are engaged already (propably they are, by other infantry) foes will dig in spaces left after re-grouping, while catas will just change their position to aim thier lances from.

Only good way to counter a flank attack is to kill a flanking force before it reaches it's position for a charge run (just a reminder, i think a lot of folks would be anoyyed if their devastating charge to the opponents inf rear would be stopped by a group of pesants, who just got in the way from nearby forests.. Heck what a traffic, and all you wanted to do was a lil mushrooming. Damn roads, back in those times there was no right road signs). Or.. well outflank the opponent faster than he does it to you. How to do this.. the tricky part starts.

[Warhammster]

Catas ftw! D:< they even break trough weaker spearmen in frontal charge almost without loses. (yet, I don't recomend you do test this in multiplayer). So what if the phalanax turns? It can't turn without breaking formation. And if they are engaged already (propably they are, by other infantry) foes will dig in spaces left after re-grouping, while catas will just change their position to aim thier lances from.

Not if your phalanx formation is symmetric. If the last row is lacking men to be complete then yes there will be holes, but if all rows got the same number of men this problem does not exist.

Only good way to counter a flank attack is to kill a flanking force before it reaches it's position for a charge run (just a reminder, i think a lot of folks would be anoyyed if their devastating charge to the opponents inf rear would be stopped by a group of pesants, who just got in the way from nearby forests.. Heck what a traffic, and all you wanted to do was a lil mushrooming. Damn roads, back in those times there was no right road signs). Or.. well outflank the opponent faster than he does it to you. How to do this.. the tricky part starts.

Doesn't work if the enemy uses a wedged cavalry charge, wedged cavalry does not stop just becase something gets in the way. If you try to intercept wedged cavalry you will find the charge unstopped and the intercepting unit blown away.

[Legio]

This thread is about single player. Comments regarding MP are off topic in this thread.

[Axl]

I never got to try them out, finished the quick campaign before my cities developed that far.
(Although really wanted to see how they work)

[Turtle Hammer]

I've found that in the field they work well on the flanks of your phalanxes, but cavalry work better. Behind the line, they can throw their pilla, and plug whatever gaps arise, but gaps rarely do arise, so I find skirmishers do this just as well most of the time. As such, I have little use for them.

Where I feel they really shine is in sieges, they're much better equiped than any other Selucid unit to attack and defend walls. Using them to storm/defend walls while the phalanxes storm/defend the gates is a bad day for anyone opposing it.

[Hopit]

stupid ap maces... thank god AI doesn't know about them

[|Sith| Max]

Stop complaining. Cataphracts aren't invincible, despite the fact that they are aspiring champions of Heavy Metal. if you want them dead good get chariots or maidens.