Historical Common Knowledge Today

[Cornelius Plautus]

Speaking to some people, I find it alarming how little they know general things about the history of the world. I often times find people (in the United States) completely unaware of why European nations and United States are considered 'western civilization', and tell me that they don't need to know that because it's a 'waste of their time'. Additionally, I was once asked, "Ummm, isn't Julius Caesar, like, ummm, the Emperor of Japan?" Either I am surrounded by idiots, or the demand for historical common knowledge has taken a nose-dive into the sea recently. While smaller and less significant powers (like Bavaria) or lesser-known parts of famous peoples' histories (like the Chinese Sui Dynasty) may not be real common knowledge, I feel that big names like Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great should be at least associated with their proper cultures, and with epithets like 'First Roman Emperor*' and 'Brilliant Greek general'. I feel as if in this day and age, when information is available in first-world nations as freely as water and electricity, those who can afford all three should be able expected to have at least a minimal knowledge of history. Besides, following the proper examples of long-past rulers is an excellent asset to anybody, and if everybody knows certain things, then the associated knowledge isn't restricted to those in power, as it was for almost all of human history. I find it ironic that nowadays, when people have the chance to change the world and their lives more than ever, they can create a million excuses not to. Oh, and did I mention that the aforementioned people have never heard of Desmond Tutu and don't know who Nelson Mandela is?

*I acknowledge that Julius Caesar wasn't technically an emperor; however, for the purposes of common knowledge, it would suffice to call him that, so long as he is known as a powerful ruler and general.

[EmperorBatman999]

Who's Desmond Tutu?
Although I do know who Nelson Mandela is. First black president of South Africa, right?

It truly is sad, I think it's mainly because modern society doesn't care about the past, only what effects their lives today. Also the fact the government has raped the history subject as a medium for propaganda. US history bores me to death, and it is attrocious that no credit is given to the some hundred thousand Australian and South Koreans in the Vietnam War, for example, or that World War 1 is taught that Germany is the supreme form of evil and that America changed the war. What lost the war for Germany was its corrupt military command.

It's sad to say that I never learned about our very own Civil War and little about the actual fighting in our Revolution, only the prelude to it. It's even sad when I tried sharing a story to the class about the Peninsular War and I explained the time period it's set in and asked the class who Napoleon was. They all thought I was talking about a character in the school play who coincidentally is named Napoleon.

[El Brujo]

The vast majority of people have never at any point in time learned more than a cursory amount of state approved historical mythology that reflects well on the current establishment, so this isn't as disastrous as it seems. It does seem to result in shorter collective memories that makes the masses easy to manipulate but that's not a bad thing in the eyes of those who have the power to fix the problem.

[Tiberius Tosi]

Speaking to some people, I find it alarming how little they know general things about the history of the world. I often times find people (in the United States) completely unaware of why European nations and United States are considered 'western civilization'

Well first of all your argument lost about 95% of credibility by needlessly attacking students in the United States specifically. Second, do you know almost everything there is to know about music theory or calculus or biology or chemistry? Hell I remember the name mitochondria but I honestly don't know and don't care what it does (hmm sound familiar, like how people recognize names but don't know what they did/do?!). Without it in my cells I would most definitely die, and so why should history take precedent over that? Following the drift of things, history IS not all that important. As a history nut and someone who is going to be a history teacher I find it hard to say, but it is the truth. Math and Sciences trump history, and you cannot expect everyone to know what everything is, you saying we are ignorant for not knowing who Desmond Tutu is is like me saying you are ignorant for not knowing what the Platt Amendment did, honestly neither of us really need to know who either were and it will make little difference that we do know our respective little fun facts about history.

I don't understand the concepts of math, I just memorize, regurgitate, and then forget right after the test. With most people who have no care for history, it is just the same. The fact that they can memorize it is what will actually end up helping them, just the same that learning many things in math you will never use teaches you to figure things out.

Who's Desmond Tutu?

Some south african guy who did something, honestly I don't think anyone from outside South Africa should really be expected to know who he is.



All this "well we don't know our history TODAY", that is total bs. Studying history has actually moved from "ok this happened then, memorize date and write it on the test" to actually understanding some concepts behind the facts. And before that was the norm, well only the rich learned history in general so people were even more ignorant...

Sorry I am coming off harsh but these kind of things get on my nerve.

[Fight!]

Personally, I feel good knowing more than 98% in my school; especially considering the 2% is only due to lack of knowledge on U.S. history which I will learn 11th grade (next year)

Though it is discouraging when I have to explain that the USSR was not Communist, or that I have to explain that China isn't Maoist anymore, or that the U.S. wasn't an innocent bystander before Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, et cetera...

I should probably stop ranting though

[Hanny]

Well first of all your argument lost about 95% of credibility by needlessly attacking students in the United States specifically. .

There was no attack, he commented on the fact, that US edu standards have fallen in relation to international leugue tables for history etc, because US students not know the basics.

Where you see an attack on the US students, you display part of why your ignorant and uniformed, and its more prevalent in the US to do so, despite it being a common human failing, probably due to more net acess of course.

[Tiberius Tosi]

There was no attack, he commented on the fact, that US edu standards have fallen in relation to international leugue tables for history etc, because US students not know the basics.

Where you see an attack on the US students, you display part of why your ignorant and uniformed, and its more prevalent in the US to do so, despite it being a common human failing, probably due to more net acess of course.

I am not uniformed... But your sir, are uninformed. Sounds like your jumping to conclusions a little bit by calling me ignorant.

Actually it was and 100% of British studenst are taught who Cromwell was and what he did, as its part of a national standadized curriculum. Your must be an american not to know that right?.

And just because it is taught does not mean people remember it, otherwise most students would know almost everything there is to know about American history in the US. We Amuricans actually do dun learn thangs ya nows.

[cottontail]

I agree with Tiberius. The fact is history is, for the most part, worthless. If a kid knows crap about the Mongols but is a great chemist while another is failing in math but knows who Emperor Caligula is, I will respect the chemist. Why? Because chemistry has a practicable application in todays society that could help advance humanity. A knowledge about history will do diddly squat for society. In fact, I'd go so far as to call for the elmination of all history classes, replace them with one cultural class ( because I believe at least a basic knowledge of cultures besides our own is important) and put the rest of our money into educating kids better in math and science.

Face it, coming from a history nut myself, history is just for making yourself seem more like an elitist. It is really only to make YOU feel good, and provides no benefit to society at large. Sure, it may allow us to understand other cultures a little better, but a sound grasp in current events is infinetely more valuable.

And I seriously hope you don't go around telling people how ignorant they are in history because the fact is it is not that important (if at all) for their success. Historians get liberal arts degrees and sit around teaching college kids how the Romans conquered some random nation in order to prepare the students to become history professors, thus producing alot of people in a worthless career, while scientists get masters and doctorates in their fields of study and provide a major positive benefit to the world. And I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that is the truth.

To finish off, I hate elitist threads like these, no offence, and good day

[Hanny]

I agree with Tiberius. The fact is history is, for the most part, worthless. If a kid knows crap about the Mongols but is a great chemist while another is failing in math but knows who Emperor Caligula is, I will respect the chemist. Why? Because chemistry has a practicable application in todays society that could help advance humanity. A knowledge about history will do diddly squat for society. In fact, I'd go so far as to call for the elmination of all history classes, replace them with one cultural class ( because I believe at least a basic knowledge of cultures besides our own is important) and put the rest of our money into educating kids better in math and science.

Face it, coming from a history nut myself, history is just for making yourself seem more like an elitist. It is really only to make YOU feel good, and provides no benefit to society at large. Sure, it may allow us to understand other cultures a little better, but a sound grasp in current events is infinetely more valuable.

And I seriously hope you don't go around telling people how ignorant they are in history because the fact is it is not that important (if at all) for their success. Historians get liberal arts degrees and sit around teaching college kids how the Romans conquered some random nation in order to prepare the students to become history professors, thus producing alot of people in a worthless career, while scientists get masters and doctorates in their fields of study and provide a major positive benefit to the world. And I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that is the truth.

To finish off, I hate elitist threads like these, no offence, and good day

he fact they are in class shows they are ignorant and uniformed, thats the purpose of edu, to pass from them that condition, and its not what we teach, but that they learn how to learn, is important.

[Captain Blackadder]

I agree with Tiberius. The fact is history is, for the most part, worthless. If a kid knows crap about the Mongols but is a great chemist while another is failing in math but knows who Emperor Caligula is, I will respect the chemist. Why? Because chemistry has a practicable application in todays society that could help advance humanity. A knowledge about history will do diddly squat for society. In fact, I'd go so far as to call for the elmination of all history classes, replace them with one cultural class ( because I believe at least a basic knowledge of cultures besides our own is important) and put the rest of our money into educating kids better in math and science.

Face it, coming from a history nut myself, history is just for making yourself seem more like an elitist. It is really only to make YOU feel good, and provides no benefit to society at large. Sure, it may allow us to understand other cultures a little better, but a sound grasp in current events is infinetely more valuable.

And I seriously hope you don't go around telling people how ignorant they are in history because the fact is it is not that important (if at all) for their success. Historians get liberal arts degrees and sit around teaching college kids how the Romans conquered some random nation in order to prepare the students to become history professors, thus producing alot of people in a worthless career, while scientists get masters and doctorates in their fields of study and provide a major positive benefit to the world. And I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that is the truth.

To finish off, I hate elitist threads like these, no offence, and good day

But historical knowledge is key to current events as some people say the more things change the more the stay the same everything that is happening now has it basis in some previous historical event. To understand know you need to udnerstand the past for example whithout knowing the history of the middle east how could you possibly have an intellignet openion on the Israel-Palestine issue if you didnt know history you would end up being one of those people who says why cant they just get along. People need to know history also for the fact that it teaches you how to think, to look at evidence, find evidence for your view and disemernate it in an intelligent manner.

[Hanny]

I am not uniformed... But your sir, are uninformed. Sounds like your jumping to conclusions a little bit by calling me ignorant.

Nope your post content support and validate mu comments, which is why i made them.

And just because it is taught does not mean people remember it, otherwise most students would know almost everything there is to know about American history in the US. We Amuricans actually do dun learn thangs ya nows.

thast why the polls asked US students what they knew, which shows the OP comment to be acuarte, which you take to be an attack on US students, rathyer than comment on what they have reatained which is less than in prior generations.

Time for you to learn something here.

[Tiberius Tosi]

thast why the polls asked US students what they knew, which shows the OP comment to be acuarte, which you take to be an attack on US students, rathyer than comment on what they have reatained which is less than in prior generations.

Time for you to learn something here.

Ok that's all fine and dandy except you were responding to the fact that 87% of British students didn't know who Cromwell was, but made the argument that 100% of students are taught it. I was saying that makes no difference because US students are indeed taught US history and it doesn't matter than 100% learn it, not that many are going to retain it so what does it matter. Your argument implied that 100% of US schools do not learn American History. That is what I was responding to.

Also, as I have stated before, US schools are now focusing less on dates and times and unecessary amounts of historical figures for students to memorize and more of concepts of history, learning from it, which is about the only good thing you can possibly do with history. Being able to spew out random history facts doesn't mean ; history people like to do that because they think it makes them look smart.

Honestly do you have to keep calling everyone ignorant in your posts?...

[SigniferOne]

There is no need to attack students of the US. European students are just as retarded. 89% of British students couldn't say who Cromwell was.

[Hanny]

There is no need to attack students of the US. European students are just as retarded. 89% of British students couldn't say who Cromwell was.

Actually it was and 100% of British studenst are taught who Cromwell was and what he did, as its part of a national standadized curriculum. Your must be an american not to know that right?.

[René Artois]

Which Cromwell?

[Cornelius Plautus]

I'm sorry if it appears as if I am attacking United States students; I use them as an example because I know a good number of them, and can talk through experience, while I know no British students (for example) and have no idea what is expected and or known by them. If I were living in France, I'd use French students as an example, too. As for history, I'm not asking for a lot, and I don't think I'm being unreasonable: some of the most important names in history should be vaguely familiar to most people. It's not as if I'm even asking for dates and any sort of specific information. All I'm saying is that certain names and places should be common knowledge, for example: "Socrates = Greek philosopher" "Qin Shi Huang = Chinese Emperor" and "Napoleon Bonaparte = French General" or "Colossus = Greek Statue" and "Arc Du Triomphe = French Monument". I don't think that should too demanding for anybody.

[Hounf of Culan]

I think its partly what others have mentioned, people don't even care to educate themselves much nowadays. Plus lets be honest, most people in the world are stupid and probably wouldn't really understand the significance of a lot of historical events/persons if presented with them.

[PointOfViewGun]

Well, there is difference between being clueless and advertising openly that you're clueless. That's the difference between USA and European states.

[hellheaven1987]

Na, it works like that in any part of world, past or present, and it is how to separate different social classes in human society.

So, face the reality and move on, be proud you are part of elite group and ignore those ignorants.

[Slaytaninc]

Well, there is difference between being clueless and advertising openly that you're clueless. That's the difference between USA and European states.

Of course Europeans are refined and Americans are barbaric thugs.

Or vice versa, I'm not really sure who you're attacking.

But seriously, can we cut the nationalist rhetoric?