Balanced Trolls?

[Keldalig]

I know this subject has been raised many times but i can't find anything to fix it.. The trolls are completely overpowered and the thought of facing another stack with 4-5 troll units is making me not want to play TATW. Even from a lore point of view trolls shouldnt be able to kill 100s of soldiers when completely surrounded. Anyways is there a submod out there that balances trolls so they're still powerful but not god-like? I've had a look myself with no luck, ty

[Berserker1]

First off, the reason they are so good, is because they do not block for the most part, second I think it would be good if archers were good enough to kill trolls with a few volleys. I am making a sub-mod with another person, alongside a stack limit mod (can not wait). Third, I have been trying to do this with melee versus trolls, I even lowered their attack, but they still did the same damage. I think one thing is they should cost more, considering elven units who cost more get owned. Overall, I think the best way is to half the hit points, which I am about to do. So, maybe you should wait for my sub-mod, look at the thread "Hi everybody!

I wonder if that thread should be moved to submods

[Ozzmosis]

I think the hitpoints and attack should stay, but the defence needs a good nerfing.

[jản]

//

but still i have to say that trolls are beatable.
exactly for that i made this thread.

//

[Vaz]

Are trolls not Heavy Infantry now?

In RR/RC, the only Unit is Troll Elephants, and they're hard as nails in any case.

[Formann]

i love the trolls, they kick ass and I personally wouldnt change them at all, but their badassness is quite a stretch in comparison to how they fare in the lore. Gothmog the Lord of the Balrogs had troll bodyguards, and they were killed by the hero Hurin, and in the battle of the Black Gate an Olog-Hai, the most badass of all trolls, was killed by Peregrin Took.

But in favor of the trolls, Aragorns grandfather Arador was killed by hill-trolls. And I believe that its a given that a chieftain of the dunedain is a badass.

[ISA Gunner]

Your best defence against Trolls would be:

[Concrete]

Your best defence against Trolls would be:

/thread

[Keldalig]

Yes Jan the trolls are beatable i agree but they require so many men and effort it's not even fun. I dont think Tolkien described trolls as so powerful that they can plough their way through hundreds of elite elven warriors and require even more elven archers to be constantly firing on them (and their own men) to take them down. The trolls in TATW don't make sense in a lore sense or in a gameplay sense.

I'm looking forward to your sub-mod Beserker Trolls are the only part of TATW i feel really needs balancing and tbh i'm surprised it hasn't been done already (actually i did find a submod to balance trolls but it was outdated .) I don't mind their attack being high so they're still used as very strong shock units, i just want a lower defence and don't want to see them so frequently. I think some people forget that despite trolls being very strong they're made of flesh too and shoudn't be the LOTR version of terminators Anyways rant over, good luck with your submodding.

[Beregond]

yeah-yeah, again this whining

trolls are the only interesting enemy in the armies of Mordor (all other units are utter crap tbh). The only thing that is not interesting is to fight ordinary infantry.
challenging enemies are interesting, if you do not like challenge please go and play vanilla.

simple

lore point is unvalid. Tolkien has described trolls as being mockery of Ents. so they are weaker than Ents, but not much. the strength of Ents is well-seen in the books.

da end

[tium]

you should just make them 3 times mor expencive, and not change anyting more

[krasni]

I hate trolls but that's only because I always play the 'good' factions. They're overpowered, but I think they should be. Without trolls, mordor and OotMM are just archer fodder. (And at least OotMM gets wargs).

Now troll catapults are a different animal - THOSE piss me off.

[Keldalig]

yeah-yeah, again this whining

trolls are the only interesting enemy in the armies of Mordor (all other units are utter crap tbh). The only thing that is not interesting is to fight ordinary infantry.
challenging enemies are interesting, if you do not like challenge please go and play vanilla.

simple

lore point is unvalid. Tolkien has described trolls as being mockery of Ents. so they are weaker than Ents, but not much. the strength of Ents is well-seen in the books.

da end

For a start i'm not whining, i enjoy playing TATW and i think it's a well designed mod all round. The funny thing about forum trolls is they come to a reasonable discussion with flawed logic and refuse to see anything in other people's views.

As i said before trolls in TATW do not make sense in a lore sense or in a gameplay sense. Yes i agree that trolls are interesting units for the dark armies but where have i said that I want to remove them? Your implying that by me asking for a reasonable balance (I dont want them to be generic boring infantry) I'm somehow going to take away their challenge and uniqueness? How?

Secondly if you feel that trolls 'are the only interesting enemy in the armies of Mordor' and 'all the other units are utter crap' then perhaps you should just play vanilla MTW with troll additions? I respect that people disagree with my opinion that they are overpowered but you completely discredit yourself and your whole argument by adding fact-less and over-the-top comments.

Thirdly i enjoy a challenge believe it or not, and challenge isn't a problem, anyone can defeat trolls with well placed cavalry strikes, ballistas or javelins. However as i stated earlier, the imbalance of the trolls takes away some of the enjoyment of the battles. When mordor throws units of trolls at me in a stack it's no longer about clever formations and defence it becomes all about whether i have enough fodder to wear the trolls down before my missile units/cavalry can finish them off.

Oh and finally another funny thing about forum trolls is they generally can't spell, I think you meant 'invalid' not 'unvalid.' And why would lore be invalid? KK seemed to make an effort to stick to lore, that's why were not seeing OOTM spawning stacks of balrogs or hordes of nazgul. Plus usually when something doesn't make sense in a gameplay sense (As Mordor/OOTM a medium stack of trolls WILL plough through any army so let's not only think for the 'good' factions gameplay) and doesn't make sense in a lore sense then surely there is something wrong with that? And why did you say that lore is 'unvalid' (lol) and then go on to talk about lore? I'm really not seeing your common sense, perhaps you can enlighten me with another clever reply.

Next time you come to a reasonable discussion maybe you should think a little and realise that perhaps your opinions are not facts and are subject to debate (which is the whole essence of a thread.)

*Awaiting trolling replies*

Edit: I'll give RR/RC a go and see if it's any better, ty

[el Cid]

I just get sick of people nagging all the time about trolls that are so strong. It is meant to be that way damnit! They should be hard to kill, they're trolls after all.

If you can't handle it then don't play the mod or remove them from it.

[Vaz]

There are only 36 of them. I regularly fight 3 or more units in a battle.

As to making them more expensive the AI gets them free, and the AI struggles with upkeep anyway.

[tium]

There are only 36 of them. I regularly fight 3 or more units in a battle.

As to making them more expensive the AI gets them free, and the AI struggles with upkeep anyway.

Now thats strange, why cant they just have the AI recruit them?

Also, why sre orc units upkeep so higth? you'd think it woulden't cost so much to mantain a unclean and almost unarmed orc than a soldjer of gondor.

[Mattack57]

To kill them with no difficulty, you must "flood" them in the crowd :minimum 3 units of infantry for 12 trolls (you don't need especially heavy units) .If i say this it's because i have tried of course this "strategy" and i managed to kill them easily
For balrogs it is another thing

[Deedlit]

How i see is, that people wouldn't complain if there wasn't anything wrong. So if people complain then it needs to be fixed. Simple as that.

[Vaz]

How i see is, that people wouldn't complain if there wasn't anything wrong. So if people complain then it needs to be fixed. Simple as that.

You need to meet my Stepmum.

[Some Random Evil Guy]

How i see is, that people wouldn't complain if there wasn't anything wrong. So if people complain then it needs to be fixed. Simple as that.

There are also peopel saying that it doesn't need to be fixed. So your logic is flawed.

Trolls really aren't unfair. They are the only tough units OOTMM and Mordor get other than Black Numenoreans, which a rare general's bodyguard anyway. Those factions are large numbers of weak units backed up with a couple of strong units. With weaker Trolls, they'd become far easier to defeat and would stop being particularly challenging.