Well that is the question. I've read In Defense of Anarchism and frankly it has made me far less sceptical. I watched this and wanted to know what you made of it.
- How do I include a poll on this?
Campidoctor
Can anarchism actually work?
Well that is the question. I've read In Defense of Anarchism and frankly it has made me far less sceptical. I watched this and wanted to know what you made of it.
- How do I include a poll on this?
GSTK: Richard Trevelyan [47] - Lord of Lyonesse
Re: Can anarchism actually work?
Polls are no longer allowed in the VV, as it made threads quite black and white and allowed people to express opinions without any support of their argument.Originally Posted by Lord de Lyonesse
Anyways, no I don't think anarchy can work. Without regulation people run wild, as we are by nature very violent, and either a vigilante or quasi-terrorist organization will rise to power anyways and anarchy will therefore be scrapped and only tribal like factions are left for the defense of the people.
I do not buy in to the "peaceful hunter" theory in which man was at one time just a peaceful being that knew nothing of "war" (in its primitive defintion) and thus did not fight other man and is therefore capable of not doing violence in general towards other humans. In my opinion, humans are violent by nature, and unless restricted by a higher order, they will fight, attack, and kill whatever is necessary to get what they want. Therefore, anarchy is technically possible, but it is not state in which humanity can advance, as the most precious posession a civilization can have, relative security and stability, is completely gone and is reliant on others mercy towards you or those around you.
In all, no anarchy is too turbulent to be successful and people too stupid to do what is right (not saying I am above that, I would take advantage of any opportunity that presented itself to me).
Forget the Cod this man needs a Sturgeon!
Centenarius
Re: Can anarchism actually work?
total anarchy? no. Our complex society doesn't have room for anarchy. For anarchy to work we need a "turn the other cheek" mentality which is unlikely to happen.
Cool and normal
Re: Can anarchism actually work?
even chimpanzees have a social order...
IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM
Domesticus
Re: Can anarchism actually work?
No, there will always be people thirsty for power.
Biarchus
Re: Can anarchism actually work?
Organization is required, even the anarchists have some sort of organizational structure. The state is the most efficient way of organizing, so anarchist society is by definition inferior. I also do not believe in the basic benevolence of man, and without a hierarchy the strong will simply take what they want from the weak.
Praeses
Re: Can anarchism actually work?
Well this could mean fascist states are the most superior systems because they are generally very efficient in favor of the STATE.
And besides, the strong still smashes the weak in most of the world without anarchy.
"Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
Marx to A.Ruge
Campidoctor
Re: Can anarchism actually work?
Oh come on, what is more important the individual or the state. The individual is in my mind the most important because it is a living being, the state is but an organisation in which people live. I reject your claim
It seems that has always been the case. Surely though in accordance to the video, the strong and the weak were treated as equals allowed to prosper in the same position free from unequal beginnings. A true meritocracy.
GSTK: Richard Trevelyan [47] - Lord of Lyonesse
Praeses
Re: Can anarchism actually work?
Oh you misunderstood me. I am actually an anarchist, at least in theory. I mean my ideals are close to it. I wrote that because what he said could lead to thinking that efficieny of state lies in extreme organization/discipline. Which would be fascism.
I too do not agree.
"Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
Marx to A.Ruge
Campidoctor
Re: Can anarchism actually work?
Ah I see. I'm sorry and apologise unreservedly. I just hate how people value objects more than lives. My ideals are close to anarchism too. I understand what you were saying. Can it work though? I mean I have friends who are a bit left-wing and want to initiate a 'bloodless coup' in which they declare Cornwall seperate from the UK. I just don't know how it could work if you wanted to work on a purely anarchistic model.
GSTK: Richard Trevelyan [47] - Lord of Lyonesse
Vicarius
Re: Can anarchism actually work?
So, in the purest sense of the word, the fascist system was one of the most efficient, but not one of the most humane systems, the key is to find balance.
No argument there.And besides, the strong still smashes the weak in most of the world without anarchy.
Campidoctor
Re: Can anarchism actually work?
Well, total anarchy probably could not exist but that was not my question. Can the anarchy described in the video work if replicated elsewhere and not in a wartime situation.
GSTK: Richard Trevelyan [47] - Lord of Lyonesse
Dux Limitis
Re: Can anarchism actually work?
The Spanish ''Anarchism'' was more Communist than Anarchist. Village and farming communities in Catalonia were largely independent and centralised, which was effective, but they weren't ''true'' Anarchist communities. There still was authority.
Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.
Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.
Jajem ssoref is m'n korewE goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtompWer niks is, hot kawsones
Biarchus
Re: Can anarchism actually work?
The Spanish Republicans did have a pretty neat thing going for 'em, but people behave differently during a civil war than they would normally.
You know, George Orwell went there as a volunteer to fight with the Republicans and got shot in the throat. Strange but true.
Anyone interested in the Spanish Civil War should definitely read Orwell's Homage to Catalonia.
Protector Domesticus
Re: Can anarchism actually work?
Why is this in the VV? Anarchism is a very strong ideology these days. Just look at the protests in London last year.
Campidoctor
Re: Can anarchism actually work?
Because I put it there.
No!
GSTK: Richard Trevelyan [47] - Lord of Lyonesse
Horrible(ly cute)
Re: Can anarchism actually work?
This is more a political question than a thread about history. I will be moving this to the Political Academy.
VP
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Re: Can anarchism actually work?
Nope, it can't work, because anarchy is a paradox: without a Government, there's nothing stopping people from forming a Government.
Tiro
Re: Can anarchism actually work?
Somalia has been in a state of anarchy in the traditional sense (no government) for several years and has suffered for it. Somalia is country only in name. An American reporter once stated on the subject that "if you want to see everything a gun can accomplish, look at Somalia."
An anarchist nation is near-impossible to maintain. Unfortunately human beings have a habit of wanting more power, and that is why warlords arise. If the personal ambitions of less-than-honest people were taken out of the equation, anarchy would be great.
It's much like Communism. Looking at that system on paper, it grants freedom and security to all the people and eliminates classes. In practice, it is also almost criminally easy to be abused for negative ends. Almost anybody motivated to do so could rise up and seize power. And that is with a legal system to protect the state.
You just can't keep a Utopian anarchist society free in this day and age. Too many people have their own agendas beyond the common good.
The Red Menace
Re: Can anarchism actually work?
No, it is possible to not have a state (Communism) but not possible to not have a government (of Things)
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