Silvan Schmilvan...

[matilda]

Hi,

Been awhile since ive total warred it, came back a few weeks ago and reinstalled RTW so I could replay RS, and then thought about reinstalling Fourth Age Total War, which I enjoyed playing before. It was then I discovered TATW had been made for M2TW and after due research and inspection was impressed and downloaded it plus some sub mods.

This is my current TATW setup:

TATW 1.4.1
RR&RC 1.4
RR&RC BAISwitcher 3.1
TATWE-B 1.0 Beta

Anyway i started, stopped and restarted a few campaigns and I cant believe how damn hard it is lol...

Ive started 4 campaigns as the Silvan Elves on Medium Setting and with all the hype about playing it on hard difficulty you would think medium is easy but its turn 30 and a small mordor orc army led by a nazgul blind sorceror has just taken my first stronghold Ost-in-Gil. 2 turns previously i defeated another nazguls attempt to take Rhosgobel killing the 'Quiet' nazgul during the battle. However considering how hard it has been to progress as Silvan Elves, it will be a house of cards effect pretty soon so Im not going to continue the campaign.

I dont think its an easy mod at all. I currently own Thranduils Halls, Eryn Dolen, Rhosgobel, Caras Galadhon, Cerin Amroth and Fanghorn. However logistically my small forces are spread so thin they wont be able to stem the tide if the Misty Mountain Goblins decided to have a go for example. There simply is not enough money to buy new forces and maintain them, upgrade my towns to get better forces and better defence and go on the offensive at the same time.

Now im a talented and expereinced strategist both in games and in my job, ive been a fan of every computer strategy game i can think of for 20 years, ive folowed small unit stuff such as the Fallout universe and the TW series from day 1, not to mention countless other strategy titles.

Ive heard people on these forums talk about the Silvan Elves having a good starting position so either im doing something badly wrong or the facts are wrong.

Ive tried different approaches with the Silvan, started 4 seperate campaigns to test theories but everytime i get pawned by the Dark Side. It just is not realistic, because the Good Sides troops may be superior on the whole to the Dark Sides, but they can field more of them and faster. Ive even used the TATWE script that ignores the Barrack Effect and gives u immediate access but it doesnt seem to make any difference.

Now unless im a complete idiot any pearls of wisdom for playing the Silvan would be welcome

Also 3 questions:

1) When you kill a Nazgul what happens? Do they respawn after a set amount of turns?

2) Elves are immortal yet they get older in the MOD, so does that mean Haldir will die thus losing all his nice trinkets because hes not on the family tree and therefore can have no heirs? I havent played long enough to see any of my leaders die naturally yet, but if Nazgul respawn then the Elven Factions leaders should not die except in battle.

3) ive looked on the forums for a mod that will seperate The Mirkwood Elves from their cousins, as far as I can see there are three none of them either compatible with my submod setup or not stable to play, does anyone know of a good mod that will allow me to play the wood elves on their own and that is safe to install with my configuration listed here?

Cheers...

[Claym0re]

I don't know the answers to you ?'s but I would like to know them myself. But I agree with the poor placement of the Silvan Elves the Orcs of the Misty Mountains both try and take you, also when I was playing dale attacked me so the only war a wasn't fighting was in the North with the Dwarves. I think however Elves have superior units do to pretty much all of them being rangers and much better quality (like Gondor, but less expensive). The elvan archers are some of the best in the game and you get them right away also they aren't completely incapable of fighting up close making most silvan units extremely versatile and a great bang for their buck. They are my personal favorite, but I like wood elves no matter what game i'm playing if they are an option so I am biased.

[Vaz]

Silvan Faction is probably one of the harder starting positions - not as hard as Gondor, but certainly more difficult than High Elves.

You have 3, maybe 4 (depending on if Rhun rolls a 4-6) on a dice, while Dale and the Dwarves rolling that results in a them winning) Enemy forces to contend with, and your nearest allies are too far away to help draw of resources - the Dwarves and Dale can struggle against the Rhun and Morian forces, and are slow, plus ill inclined to ally or even negotiate with you. Dale on the other hand is more likely to provide trade routes, but you're generally too far to benefit.

There's the wall of the Misty Mountains blockading the High Elf Allies, and the Rohan forces are obsessed with Rebels and Isengard.

I've not tried that set up, having removed TATW to work on other mods.

Nazgul pretty much do what you say. However, they don't have all their nice benefits gained. So your Witch King with his 8 ancillaries and 20 traits is no longer as powerful. However, he does respawn with all of his most basic traits etc.

However - the Elves do die in the mod. There's only a slightly ugly work around which I've developed with Aikanar, gigantus and SO which sort of allows immortality, BUT it still leaves several screens behind, and precludes the use of Family Trees.

AFAIK, no, for the mirkwood elves. DaC is in progress to being built though, but I've been limited for time working on other mods.

[krasni]

When playing the silvan elves you have to take out Dol Goldur ASAP. Just recruit everything you can and combine what forces you start with and you should be able to siege it before turn 10. Getting Mordor out of the picture makes things a hell of a lot easier. Dale should be able to hold off Rhun, and Rohan should be able to hold off Isenguard, or at the very least keep them busy, whilst you deal with OfTMM. Try to ally with the Dwarves if you can to make sure they don't backstab you.

As for separating Mirkwood - FROME does this, but it also separates the dwarves into two factions (which I guess I am indifferent on) AND adds a Dunland faction (which I think is just silly).

[koultouras]

As for separating Mirkwood - FROME does this, but it also separates the dwarves into two factions (which I guess I am indifferent on) AND adds a Dunland faction (which I think is just silly).

@Krasni.......
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/d/dunlendings.html
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/menofdunland.html
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/w/wulf.html
doesnt look silly enough to me! on the contrary i'd say!

[krasni]

I know about the Dunlendings - I'm not saying they don't exist. However, they are really effectively a part of Isengard during the time this mod takes place. Even one of the links you provided even says as much - "At the time of the War of the Ring, Saruman recruited the Dunlendings to his cause and sent them into battle against their old enemies, the Rohirrim."

[Ellin Athinaios]

However, they are really effectively a part of Isengard during the time this mod takes place. Even one of the links you provided even says as much - "At the time of the War of the Ring, Saruman recruited the Dunlendings to his cause and sent them into battle against their old enemies, the Rohirrim."

In the same way one could say, "At the time of the War of the Ring, Sauron recruited the Haradrim and the Easterlings to his cause and sent them into battle against their old enemies, the men of Gondor."

Would that mean that Harad and Rhun are a part of Mordor, unworthy of their own factions?

[Lord Uxbridge]

Now unless im a complete idiot any pearls of wisdom for playing the Silvan would be welcome

What I do is at the start of the campaign I merge as much of the armies I have in Mirkwood together and train some more units and add them to it so I have 1 strong army roughly before the 10th turn, I then take the rebel settlements in southen Mirkwood quickly before Mordor do and then besiege their settlement (Dol Goldur) governed by a Nazgul and hopefully I can take it after a tough battle caused by the garrison script (if Mordor have taken any other settlements in mirkwood or the surrounding area I try to take them as well) this removes the imediate threat of Mordor so I can concentrate my forces on the OotMM as Rhun shouldn't attack for a while because they will be held up fighting Dale and the Dwarves. I try and take the rebel settlements between the misty mountains and mirkwood after the threat of Mordor is removed so I can push the orcs back into the mountains. Then I can turn on Rhun when they arrive. The Dwarves may attack you later in the game if there is no alliance.

Hope it helps

Edit: looks like I have been beaten to it by Krasni

[Seleukos_I.]

Elves don't die in RR/RC.

[RyuAzai]

Elves don't die in RR/RC.

How do they do this?

Just set everyone's age limit to 300?

Or what?

[Seleukos_I.]

How do they do this?

Just set everyone's age limit to 300?

Or what?

Don't know what the limit is, bit it's high. And the first generation of men is killed via script.

[Vaz]

Don't know what the limit is, bit it's high. And the first generation of men is killed via script.

I'm playing at 99,999 in Cry Havoc, and don't have an issue. To check, though, open descr_campaign_db.xml, and search for the max age.

If the elves aren't in the family tree, you need to expand more lands, or fight harder with the generals so that they'll get accepted.

I personally think (and made it so myself) that the Silvans have a Female Child Aged 1.

However, you can easily transfer ancillaries, depending on if the code allows them to be - Have both generals on the same tile, and click and drag your preferred ancillary.

[Smaug]

Don't know what the limit is, bit it's high. And the first generation of men is killed via script.

My Echtelion is 95 and live and kicking. Do you know at what age the script kicks in?

[matilda]

nice replies cheers


Vaz: The problem is mate the elves die yet there not in the family tree, therefore no ancestors means no way to pass on heirlooms of the house and so on...the nazgul respawn we dont, im easy about most things cant say i fully agree with the way that was implemented, though credit to the team nonetheless.

Krasni: Yer I was thinking about Dol Guldur just before logging of to do my workout, seems like sound advice mate ill try it and i figure being bankrupt doesnt matter as long as I can sustain any losses long enough to get un-bankrupt so ill put a large army together and wel see

Lord Uxbridge: Same what are the dwarves crazy or something? Dont they know who the bad guy is, I would cut off there heads if they stood but a littlew taller from the ground

Louis Lux: Nah im not giving up the game mate im not a quitter, I was thinking about trying another faction, but tonight i will take said advices here and start afresh with Silvan.

Seleukos: Are you sure about that Seleukos? Do they just carry on aging then?


Cheers

ps- Have I made my game uber hard for myself with my mod choices? Maybe I should remove TATWE-B?

[Louis Lux]

If you lose a settlement don't give up man, the game is supposed to be hard, one time playing Dale after I made a quick expansion I lost a settlement if I remember correctly it was Dol Guldur and saw I had not enough forces to deal with trolls so I sold a couple of settlements and regrouped and was able to fence of Mordor all the way to the black gate and then I kind of stopped playing but I could have easily won the game.

I would say try playing TATW 1.4.1 with FROME.

[JorisofHolland]

The archers on the wall trick is a nice one, you probably don't know it:
When a unit climbs your walls with ladders or siege towers, have one unit ready to kill them in close combat, set a bit to the right. Then, a unit of archers positioned a good distance to the right opens fire, whilst the combat begins. For example, your Sindar Archers (bodyguard) fire a few arrows when the enemy reaches the walls, but then draw swords and start killing, whilst other units (Sentinels, probably) open fire (literally; use flaming arrows and they'll run!) and kill a huge ammount of enemies.

[el Cid]

The archers on the wall trick is a nice one, you probably don't know it:
When a unit climbs your walls with ladders or siege towers, have one unit ready to kill them in close combat, set a bit to the right. Then, a unit of archers positioned a good distance to the right opens fire, whilst the combat begins. For example, your Sindar Archers (bodyguard) fire a few arrows when the enemy reaches the walls, but then draw swords and start killing, whilst other units (Sentinels, probably) open fire (literally; use flaming arrows and they'll run!) and kill a huge ammount of enemies.

This seems like a nice trick . Will try it soon.

[mattgoby]

remember in the latter stages ur archers will hold the walls themselves so defensivley you need very units about 4 archers and 3 strong melee wll hold a town and kill of almost a full stack for me i would recomend from its uncompatible with all other mods though unfortuanetly

[gunrunner]

i may be new to TATW but not to the TW series i beat um all from shogun to napoleon

my ideas for your SE campaign would be to KILL all mordor units,towns,etc, in S.mirkwood FAST
take the city's east of mirkwood 2nd and then fangorn ( for the ENTS ) keep i nice army in loth-lorien
to stall OOTMM make Allys of dale and dwarfs and just fight OOTMM till they are done.....i was able to beat um with in 50 or so turns after they are done your empire is big enough to field more army's

after that no ones a problem

just my 2 cents

[koultouras]

i would like to appeal to common sense here......

1) the first link speaks of dunlendings inhabiting southern parts of eriador in
THIRD AGE and naming them as the sworn enemies of ROHAN

2) Saruman indeed recruited dunlendings, but does this means that
the entire folk of Dunland were recruited?So could it be that nobody was left out and not to be part of Sarumans army?.......
Logicaly that is totaly unlikely to have happened.....

3) Perhaps "Silly" had been meant by u in a more positive way that was actually written-interpreted in your previous post
i would say though that we may need to be
more carefull in our depictions refering to ones work.....
dont get me wrong , u are free to dislike it , u are free to
choose not to play it , u are also free to critisise it all u want,.....but
saying that
is "just silly" , isnt clarifying much nor justifying anything.....is it?
not to mention that it could be interpreted as an indirect insult to me and the FRoME's devs themselves.......!