swiss pikemen are really strong!

[adecoy95]

im suprised that they are as strong as they are, the stats on their card look "meh" but when put out on the field they just kill everything. (6.2rc4)

what other units out there have a strength that defies their unit card?

[Caesar Clivus]

Historically Swiss Pikemen were very tough on the battlefield.

[adecoy95]

Historically Swiss Pikemen were very tough on the battlefield.

how are they so strong compaired to their unit stats on the card tho, is it because of the formation button?

[Petar]

A group of horse archers alone can kill them all.
A group of less professional pikemen can kill them all if the Swiss are on a hill or slope and the other group advances from below.
Artilery fire (from balista to mortars) can devastate their tightly packed formation in no time..

Simply avoid direct frontal combat and you'll see how crappy they actually are. Positioning is everything. War is all about being at the right place at the right time. And given the limitation of the AI, the TW battles become even easier.

[Jean=A=Luc]

Not so much the button as the formation itself.

[adecoy95]

Not so much the button as the formation itself.

well yea but what exactly does the formation do gameplay wise that causes them to become blenders

[Gogolometro]

Swiss can be a problem in papal lines too.

[axnsan]

That's because you're playing TOTAL WAR, not some other weak rts game

You see, it's not only the unit stats that matter, but also formations, and circumstances such as terrain, charges, what stance they are when recieving the charge (ready, marching, or getting a tan)

To answer your question, yes, it's the pike formation that makes them so effective, since nobody gets close enough to harm them. Though it's enough just to get a unit around their back and they go . Arrows also slaughter them pretty well.

[Gogolometro]

Not swiss. Never imagine you just cant go around and easy kill charging from back. You need 6 times more archers or 3-4 times infantry units to win. Never cavalry used, is like free kill for them. Plus swiss are finded like nice rebels in Alps, were their bunuses go up.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

what other units out there have a strength that defies their unit card?

I was messing around doing some rebel killing as Egypt and I had two units of Armored Saracen Militia vs two units rebel Nubian spearman. I charged downhill {fresh} at the Nubian's and they absolutely mopped the floor with my Saracen's fighting uphill all the way...

PB's explanation was that the Nubian are professionals and the Saracen's just militia. Obviously he's not a stat whore like I am.

I'm still scratching my head on that one cuz stat-wise my Saracen's should have annihilated the rebel scum...

[axnsan]

Well that may be because of unseen stats like spacing, animations, formation and terrain bonuses. Or you just had some bad luck.

Yeah, nubians have a shorter attack delay and higher morale than saracen militias. Plus they have desert bonuses which saracen don't

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Yeah, nubians have a shorter attack delay and higher morale than saracen militias. Plus they have desert bonuses which saracen don't

Ya well lets just say that I had lower morale after that engagement and that's 10-15 minutes of my life I'll never get back...

Oh...I'm all sad now.... I suck as a field commander...

[Ichon]

Well that may be because of unseen stats like spacing, animations, formation and terrain bonuses. Or you just had some bad luck.

Yeah, nubians have a shorter attack delay and higher morale than saracen militias. Plus they have desert bonuses which saracen don't

I've been surprised many times by low stat units that have short attack delay. Especially during sieges when they storm the walls and then kill half a unit of armored heavy infantry.

[Rogal Dorn]

It's simple. Swiss Pikemen turn their enemies into Swiss Cheese. Didn't you ever wonder where the name came from? Now you know.

No matter what you do, running headfirst, screaming, into a wall of pikes is never a good idea, no matter how good you think you are

[Mr. Tornado]

It's simple. Swiss Pikemen turn their enemies into Swiss Cheese. Didn't you ever wonder where the name came from? Now you know.

No matter what you do, running headfirst, screaming, into a wall of pikes is never a good idea, no matter how good you think you are

Unless you're Rohan or a LOTR character. Then you can slam horses, yourself, and other important things into pikes and be OK!

[adecoy95]

Unless you're Rohan or a LOTR character. Then you can slam horses, yourself, and other important things into pikes and be OK!

well, in defense of that scene from the movie, the pikemen were blinded when the cavalry hit their lines

[Gogolometro]

[Rogal Dorn]

well, in defense of that scene from the movie, the pikemen were blinded when the cavalry hit their lines

In The Two Towers, yes, because Gandalf turned on the "switch," which also caused all the horses to do 10x normal damage. However, there's another charge in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, and in the movie, the horses charge straight into organized Orc pikemen (though the Orcs were panicking a bit because the horses were loud and scary and their mommies weren't with them to hold their hands).

So, in Lord of the Rings (not TATW), charging into pikes is not only plausible, it's an accepted "tide-turning" tactic.

[Vaz]

I'd have to check, but I believe that there are no secondary weapons for Pikemen, which makes them unbelievably strong units in Phalanx. Swiss Guard are even nastier, as they have the option for Halberds as well.

[Caesar Clivus]

I'd have to check, but I believe that there are no secondary weapons for Pikemen, which makes them unbelievably strong units in Phalanx. Swiss Guard are even nastier, as they have the option for Halberds as well.

SS removes the secondary weapons from pikemen because in vanilla, pikemen would swap to their swords 2 seconds after they get into melee, making them pretty useless overall.