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  1. #1
    René Artois's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    RICHARD DAWKINS, the atheist campaigner, is planning a legal ambush to have the Pope arrested during his state visit to Britain “for crimes against humanity”. Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, the atheist author, have asked human rights lawyers to produce a case for charging Pope Benedict XVI over his alleged cover-up of sexual abuse in the Catholic church.
    The pair believe they can exploit the same legal principle used to arrest Augusto Pinochet, the late Chilean dictator, when he visited Britain in 1998.
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle7094310.ece

    Discuss.

    I'm not sure how much of a case Dawkins actually has here, but I really hope he drops it. The respect I did have for Dawkins because of the way he sensibly presented a reasoned argument against the existence of God, is now disappearing, and will be gone if he carries this out.
    Bitter is the wind tonight,
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  2. #2
    Strelok's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    Why would you lose respect for him if he does this?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    Quote Originally Posted by House M.D View Post
    Why would you lose respect for him if he does this?
    the man sounds like a cry baby

  4. #4

    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    The respect I did have for Dawkins because of the way he sensibly presented a reasoned argument against the existence of God, is now disappearing, and will be gone if he carries this out.
    I agree. I like his ideas but i dislike his extremism. A good atheist shouldn't be so radical.

  5. #5
    empr guy's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergio_94 View Post
    I agree. I like his ideas but i dislike his extremism. A good atheist shouldn't be so radical.
    how is he a radical for arresting someone guilty of crimes?
    odi et amo quare id faciam fortasse requiris / nescio sed fieri sentio et excrucior


  6. #6

    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    Well it sounds like it could be fun to try but doubt they would get anywhere.
    The wheel is spinning, but the hamster is dead.

  7. #7
    Strelok's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    Apparently Dawkins didn't say this at all, from the Richard Dawkins site: http://richarddawkins.net/articles/5415

    Needless to say, I did NOT say "I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI" or anything so personally grandiloquent. You have to remember that The Sunday Times is a Murdoch newspaper, and that all newspapers follow the odd custom of entrusting headlines to a sub-editor, not the author of the article itself.

    What I DID say to Marc Horne when he telephoned me out of the blue, and I repeat it here, is that I am whole-heartedly behind the initiative by Geoffrey Robertson and Mark Stephens to mount a legal challenge to the Pope's proposed visit to Britain. Beyond that, I declined to comment to Marc Horme, other than to refer him to my 'Ratzinger is the Perfect Pope' article here: http://richarddawkins.net/articles/5341

    Here is what really happened. Christopher Hitchens first proposed the legal challenge idea to me on March 14th. I responded enthusiastically, and suggested the name of a high profile human rights lawyer whom I know. I had lost her address, however, and set about tracking her down. Meanwhile, Christopher made the brilliant suggestion of Geoffrey Robertson. He approached him, and Mr Robertson's subsequent 'Put the Pope in the Dock' article in The Guardian shows him to be ideal:
    http://richarddawkins.net/articles/5366
    The case is obviously in good hands, with him and Mark Stephens. I am especially intrigued by the proposed challenge to the legality of the Vatican as a sovereign state whose head can claim diplomatic immunity.

    Even if the Pope doesn't end up in the dock, and even if the Vatican doesn't cancel the visit, I am optimistic that we shall raise public consciousness to the point where the British government will find it very awkward indeed to go ahead with the Pope's visit, let alone pay for it.

  8. #8
    René Artois's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    Quote Originally Posted by House M.D View Post
    Apparently Dawkins didn't say this at all, from the Richard Dawkins site: http://richarddawkins.net/articles/5415
    So he didn't say it, but he's still going to do it. I'm a big fan of Dawkins, and have seen him speak a couple of times, but this seems rather extreme to me.
    Bitter is the wind tonight,
    it stirs up the white-waved sea.
    I do not fear the coursing of the Irish sea
    by the fierce warriors of Lothlind.

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    The Dude's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    What's extreme about arresting the pope? He's a goddamn criminal, running around africa telling people that condoms increase the chances of getting aids while covering up pedophilia on the homefront.

    Don't care how much of an "inspiration" to this man is to millions. His ass belongs in jail and if it was up to me I'd have him sued for crimes against humanity.
    I have approximate answers and possible beliefs, and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I’m not absolutely sure of anything, and many things I don’t know anything about. But I don’t have to know an answer. I don’t feel frightened by not knowing.
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  10. #10
    Libertus
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    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    What's extreme about arresting the pope? He's a goddamn criminal, running around africa telling people that condoms increase the chances of getting aids while covering up pedophilia on the homefront.
    How about you get your facts right, lad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy
    Oh, God you are so ignorant it's not even funny.

    The Church is right and unassailable facts are there prove it, no matter what lies her enemies repeat: where abstinence and fidelity are the norm, HIV-AIDS declines, where Catholics are the majority and the Church has earned respect of people, even in the worst social and economic situations, HIV-AIDS declines. Look at the statistics.

    If the hypothesis that Catholic doctrine spreads HIV and AIDS, we would expect to see increased infection rates in countries that contain more Catholics. Instead, we find decreased HIV rates in Catholic-dominated countries (although the trend is not statistically significant). The idea that Catholic teaching encourages the spread of HIV is not confirmed by the demographics.

    The ten countries in continental Africa with the highest percentage of Catholics are:

    1) Equitorial Guinea (93.52% Catholic / HIV rate 3.4%)
    2) Burundi (65.25% Catholic / HIV rate 2.0%)
    3) Lesotho (53.62% RC/ 23.2% HIV)
    4) Congo (50.49% RC / 3.5% HIV)
    5) Angola (50.04% RC / 2.1% HIV)
    6) Democratic Rep. of Congo (49.45% RC / 1.2-1.5% HIV)
    7) Rwanda (47.92% RC / 2.8% HIV)
    8) Gabon (46.42% RC / 5.9% HIV)
    9) Uganda (42.28% RC / 6.7% HIV)
    10) Zambia (28.22 RC / 15.2% HIV)

    This isn't a true "African top ten" though. Some small island countries such as Cape Verde, Reunion and the Seychelles are over 90% Catholic and all have very low AIDS rates. The ten African countries with the highest rates of AIDS are:

    1) Swaziland (26.1% HIV rate / 5.56% Catholic)
    2) Botswana (23.9% HIV rate / 4.78% Catholic)
    3) Lesotho (23.2% HIV / 53.62% RC)
    4) South Africa (18.1% HIV / 6.36% RC)
    5) Namibia (15.3% HIV / 16.78% RC)6) Zimbabwe (15.3% HIV / 8.79% RC)
    7) Zambia (15.2% HIV / 28.22% RC)
    8) Mozambique (12.5% HIV / 22.33% RC)
    9) Malawi (11.9% HIV / 21.76% RC)
    10) Uganda (6.7 % HIV / 42.28%)

    Notice how no country which is over 40% Catholic has a high HIV rate with the exception of Lesotho, a tiny country which is completely land-locked by Protestant/pagan South Africa. The prevalance of HIV in a nation is determined more by geography than religious demographics. Southern and south-east Africa has far higher infection rates than the rest of the continent, including numerous highly Catholic countries in central Africa.

    Current (2007) statistics:

    Phillipines: (abstinence/fidelity promoted)
    Population 91.4 Million
    HIV/AIDS sufferers = 8,300
    2007 AIDS Deaths = less than 200

    Thailand: (condoms promoted)
    Population = 66.1 Million
    HIV/AIDS sufferers = 610,000
    2007 AIDS Deaths = 30,000

    The director of Harvard's AIDS Prevention Research Project, Edward Green, has told a Rome conference that Benedict's position on AIDS and condoms is correct.

    Green stated this in an address at the 30th annual Meeting for Friendship Among Peoples in Rimini, sponsored by the lay movement, Communion and Liberation, ZENIT reports.

    Green, an expert on AIDS prevention, said that "as a scientist he was amazed to see the closeness between what the Pope said last March in Cameroon and the results of the most recent scientific discoveries."

    "The condom does not prevent AIDS. Only responsible sexual behavior can address the pandemic," he said.

    "When Benedict XVI said that different sexual behavior should be adopted in Africa, because to put trust in condoms does not serve to fight against AIDS, the international press was scandalized."

    "To propose the regular use of the condom as prevention in Africa could have the opposite effect."

    He explained the phenomenon of human behavior called "risk compensation," whereby a person "feels protected and thus exposes himself more."

    The researcher and medical anthropologist asked: "Why has an attempt not been made to change people's customs?"

    "The world industry has taken many years to understand that measures of a technical and medical character are of no use to solve the problem," he added.

    Green highlighted the successful policies that have been implemented in Uganda to battle AIDS, programs based in the "ABC" strategy: "Abstain, Be faithful, and, as a last resource, use a Condom."

    He reported: "In the case of Uganda, an impressive result has been obtained in the fight against AIDS

    Of countries with high HIV rates, those with relatively high numbers of Catholics (e.g. Mozambique) are all located in the south/south-east.

    SOURCE 1

    SOURCE 2
    SOURCE 3
    SOURCE 4
    SOURCE 5

    This Scientist is not only one to come out in support of what the Pope said in Africa in March of this year. Those who say that Catholic teaching is spreading HIV/Aids, should do their research, because it's the exact opposite!
    I am sure I have posted this on at TW before, though I couldn't find it. And as regards to the sex scandal.. there are other threads dealing with that issue in depth. But again you could do with checking the facts instead of playing the "cool guy rebel" with all your talk against the Pope.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    The first post/title desperately needs to be edited to include this:

    Quote Originally Posted by House M.D View Post
    Apparently Dawkins didn't say this at all, from the Richard Dawkins site: http://richarddawkins.net/articles/5415
    Last edited by Gordon Freynman; April 12, 2010 at 02:45 AM.



  12. #12
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    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    And another typical Dawkins thread.

    A newspaper article makes something up about him, and then instead of actually, you know, checking the facts and making an informed judgement, the usual suspects jump into the thread and beat up straw Dawkins with a 2x4. To be fair to these people, if Dawkins was actually responsible for half the lies the newspapers print about him, I'd think he was a dick too.

    Oh well, blind hysteria 1, reasoned fact-checking 0.
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    Oddsworm's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfTheIsles View Post
    And another typical Dawkins thread.

    A newspaper article makes something up about him, and then instead of actually, you know, checking the facts and making an informed judgement, the usual suspects jump into the thread and beat up straw Dawkins with a 2x4. To be fair to these people, if Dawkins was actually responsible for half the lies the newspapers print about him, I'd think he was a dick too.

    Oh well, blind hysteria 1, reasoned fact-checking 0.
    They didnt even have to check up facts. All they needed to do was read the first page. A link and the article was posted there.

    And what has the catholic church done in response to the latest paedophile charges? If its nothing, then the church would probaly be better off having the pope charged for something. anything would be better than adopting the policy of 'see no evil, hear no evil'

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    Elfdude's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    Quote Originally Posted by Oddsworm View Post
    They didnt even have to check up facts. All they needed to do was read the first page. A link and the article was posted there.

    And what has the catholic church done in response to the latest paedophile charges? If its nothing, then the church would probaly be better off having the pope charged for something. anything would be better than adopting the policy of 'see no evil, hear no evil'
    Doesn't change the fact that the article linked misrepresented what Dawkins said. He supports the legal case against the pope he isn't spearheading the effort. Any self respecting person would call for at least investigation into the crimes of the catholic church but the article focuses on Dawkins which can only be assumed to be an attempt to call into question the entire charge which judging from this thread was resoundingly successful.

    The pope made a veiled comment about certain unbelievers and their gossip. I don't think you can compare over 200 cases of pedophilia that the pope knew about and even helped cover up unbeliever gossip.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    Yes, you're right, it's not radical, it's crazy.
    Dawkins is crazy if he think he can fight against religion in this stupid way.

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    Holger Danske's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergio_94 View Post
    Yes, you're right, it's not radical, it's crazy.
    Dawkins is crazy if he think he can fight against religion in this stupid way.
    Sooner or later religion will have to awnser to it's crimes against humanity...

  17. #17
    Strelok's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    The article misrepresented him a bit.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    I don't understand how there isn't grounds for arrest here.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    Poor guy's not all there I suppose. Unsurprising considering he debates against creationists so often.

  20. #20
    Sir Winston Churchill's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI

    Pope to Richard Dawkins: "You can damn well try!"


    Seriously, he won't get past the Swiss Guard.

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