Tsardoms Total War - FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

[Visarion]

I don't think the two-handed maces should be smaller!

I also love the Mosneni Archers and many other units!

[Wallachian]

I don't think the two-handed maces should be smaller!

Yes, i agree the maces were always big weapons handled by strong men able to crush skulls even through armored helmets.

This is a typical peasant-made mace (basically a club with nails) and although there is nothing to compare to in the picture it's obvious how long it is.

[Bagatyr]

Visarion is that you on the picture ?

[Matthæus]

just to say i am very happy how Wallachians turned out.
long live TTW mod !

[2Shy]

hh, i really don't know how you got to conclusion that i'm angry or something. i'm just serious, nothing more, rarely putting smiles on forums, only when i'm joking with some team mates.
well, i wasn't angry at all, i've accepted that comment about maces, and yet, i replied that they were heavy and two handed (two hands needed for them to carry) and they should look like that, maybe a bit smaller. but when you said about longswords, that they look big, and that they were not used by horsemen, i've replied with comment as that you don't know too much history and that you've pretty much influenced by western units. and later when you replied as "two handed weapon with no armor", that put me in sure doubt that you have some history lack (no offense, my opinion). Well, still not your fault, i really didn't know that until i was working on Wallachian faction. But still, about that macemen, many Romanians replied as "true unit of Wallachia", while you're post was like "those units looks silly, they don't stand a chance with no armor and shield. why are they included?"
And i didn't feel insulted. Instead, i felt like you've insulted work of Romano, who put a really great effort on researching them

I don't tink I had insulted someone ,but if that is true - Daco-Romanis, I really sorry for insulting you .I also think that he made really good reaserch and if he was angry or upset with me he should had told me-we are grown persons, right?!From you reaction I judge that you are upset with me-personaly I don't know why.The only thing I asked was should be the maces so big ...

PS-and btw did wallachians really didn't have town guard/watch ?!?

[ShockBlast]

PS-and btw did wallachians really didn't have town guard/watch ?!?

First unit....Wallachian Watchmen...

[Visarion]

I love that units have upgrades:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Maces had different shapes and dimensions! I was wondering if you could include different maces to create diversity... of course this is just a thought! I like them the way they are so... it's up to you!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

........

Visarion is that you on the picture ?

..........No! is this guy...

[2Shy]

First unit....Wallachian Watchmen...

oh yeah - ops

[slavic_crusader]

wow the maces are huge. I also think it would be nice to add different maces as well. But thats just a simple touch, but not important

[Romano-Dacis]

The mace heads are maybe too wide on the upgraded version and the spikes could be more narrow. But this is a really low-priority change at this point, considering the weapon was made from scratch. I'm amazed at the work they did on those maces, especially the handles. It looks really detailed.

@2Shy: I wasn't upset, don't worry about it. I'm sure a lot of people don't know that two-handed maces existed. It's all good.

[Visarion]

The mace heads are maybe too wide on the upgraded version and the spikes could be more narrow.

even so they look good! they're terrifying!

[2Shy]

Romano you are right-I had never seen a two-handed maces in MTW and I don't say they are some kind of wrong,but they seem ... like phoenix[illusion] says - westernised (out of context ofcourse ) ,especialy upgraded (deam big hammers ! ) !

[phoenix[illusion]]

ok tnx for advice
anyways, 2shy, sry if i offended you

[2Shy]

ok tnx for advice
anyways, 2shy, sry if i offended you

No problem man .If you take constructive critisim(I hope so ) ,that game don't need ragusa or achea as much as ,Golden horde/Tatas beeng in big crisis (balancing Wallacia,Moldavia and may be a little big Hungary.I mean Ragusa or Achea will be factions with only 1-2 provinces with unit roosters unknown and will be easy target for hungry Serbia () or Byz empire;and +this will cause war between Bulgaria and Wallachia). Think about it (pls )).

[ShockBlast]

Pheonix have you given any thought to this?

Well anyway, this thread should be about units, not historical debates.
Recently someone asked me if Wallachia's unit composition was perhaps too weak on anti-cavalry units. A primary concern was the lack of medium spearmen, and his belief that the mosneni archers wouldn't properly work with their spears against cavalry units; that most of them would be slaughtered in the initial charge while holding their bows and another 1/4 of the would die from swords before they pulled out their spears.

To me it seems we have some alternatives:
1) The player might be forced to use different tactics for different factions. For instance, a cavalry charge could be absorbed by watchmen or Wallachian light cavalry interceptors, and then when the enemy cavalry is stuck they are attacked by Wallachian infantry. Wallachia has a strong selection of units effective against armor (serfs, macemen, armas guards, voievod's hunters [? maybe even mosneni archers]) for such a purpose. I know, not every faction plays the same.
2) We could make the mosneni archers from being "archers with spears as secondary weapons" to being "spearmen with bows as a secondary weapon." They of course still would be more lethal with bows than in melee. The problem is the AI would then be unable to use them properly (maybe?).
3) We could make a "mosneni spear warband" which would be just like the mosneni but armed with spears and shield... a simple substitute.

I kind of like it the way it is. A Wallachian player will be forced to fight in a different fashion. There is a reason why the Romanian word for warrior (razboinic) is derived from a Slavic term for raiders and we reflect this better by making the Wallachians a more offense-based army rather than a static spear wall. We will see balancing of factions before it is released, tweaking unit numbers and stats.

Concern was also raised about the term "warband", and it was hoped that the Romanian infantry formations would not be too loose, as implied by such a name. I think Wallachia's mosneni have the same deployment and formation types of Serbian or Bulgarian medium infantry units. The "warband" is only designed to signify their method of recruitment, as mosneni came to the battlefield recruited in a "ceata" (lit. "warband") from a village (see def. 2 from the Romanian dictionary).

The preview is again only designed to highlight modeling, textures, unit rosters, and descriptions. We appreciate any constructive feedback or suggestions from you, our beloved fans (though certainly "AWESOME!!!" is good feedback as well).

[Giovi]

wow ,a wesome preview keep it up

[phoenix[illusion]]

No problem man .If you take constructive critisim(I hope so ) ,that game don't need ragusa or achea as much as ,Golden horde/Tatas beeng in big crisis (balancing Wallacia,Moldavia and may be a little big Hungary.I mean Ragusa or Achea will be factions with only 1-2 provinces with unit roosters unknown and will be easy target for hungry Serbia () or Byz empire;and +this will cause war between Bulgaria and Wallachia). Think about it (pls )).

well, better to put Achaea than Ragusa cause it would challenge Serbia in spreading so as Byzantium. As faction, it'll be harder than as a rebel state. but i'm thinking of Despotate of Epirus, but since it was almost same as byzantium, it is not necessary to put them as a faction

[phoenix[illusion]]

Well anyway, this thread should be about units, not historical debates.
Recently someone asked me if Wallachia's unit composition was perhaps too weak on anti-cavalry units. A primary concern was the lack of medium spearmen, and his belief that the mosneni archers wouldn't properly work with their spears against cavalry units; that most of them would be slaughtered in the initial charge while holding their bows and another 1/4 of the would die from swords before they pulled out their spears.

To me it seems we have some alternatives:
1) The player might be forced to use different tactics for different factions. For instance, a cavalry charge could be absorbed by watchmen or Wallachian light cavalry interceptors, and then when the enemy cavalry is stuck they are attacked by Wallachian infantry. Wallachia has a strong selection of units effective against armor (serfs, macemen, armas guards, voievod's hunters [? maybe even mosneni archers]) for such a purpose. I know, not every faction plays the same.
2) We could make the mosneni archers from being "archers with spears as secondary weapons" to being "spearmen with bows as a secondary weapon." They of course still would be more lethal with bows than in melee. The problem is the AI would then be unable to use them properly (maybe?).
3) We could make a "mosneni spear warband" which would be just like the mosneni but armed with spears and shield... a simple substitute.

I kind of like it the way it is. A Wallachian player will be forced to fight in a different fashion. There is a reason why the Romanian word for warrior (razboinic) is derived from a Slavic term for raiders and we reflect this better by making the Wallachians a more offense-based army rather than a static spear wall. We will see balancing of factions before it is released, tweaking unit numbers and stats.

Concern was also raised about the term "warband", and it was hoped that the Romanian infantry formations would not be too loose, as implied by such a name. I think Wallachia's mosneni have the same deployment and formation types of Serbian or Bulgarian medium infantry units. The "warband" is only designed to signify their method of recruitment, as mosneni came to the battlefield recruited in a "ceata" (lit. "warband") from a village (see def. 2 from the Romanian dictionary).

The preview is again only designed to highlight modeling, textures, unit rosters, and descriptions. We appreciate any constructive feedback or suggestions from you, our beloved fans (though certainly "AWESOME!!!" is good feedback as well).

ok, those alternatives are very nice, but i prefer leave Wallachia as it is, with lack of spearmen. Tsardoms will have mercenaries camps, and I think most of the units within army will be mercenaries. So they will have to make those camps to buy Bulgarian spearmen, but by the price of civil disorder. Also, if i could get to code that, in alliance with Bulgaria or Hungary, their mercenaries will be available as upgraded, with higher morale, if not, a much lesser morale units will be available with no upgrade. And this will much get attention to player so he'd be worry if he breaks alliance

[gogo t]

Wow this would be verry nice
I hate that in TW aliances don't have big importance

[ShockBlast]

ok, those alternatives are very nice, but i prefer leave Wallachia as it is, with lack of spearmen. Tsardoms will have mercenaries camps, and I think most of the units within army will be mercenaries. So they will have to make those camps to buy Bulgarian spearmen, but by the price of civil disorder. Also, if i could get to code that, in alliance with Bulgaria or Hungary, their mercenaries will be available as upgraded, with higher morale, if not, a much lesser morale units will be available with no upgrade. And this will much get attention to player so he'd be worry if he breaks alliance

As long as the upkeep is not exagerated like the one the mercenaries from other mods.You could give them a bigger recruting price but please make the upkeep cost effective.
So the recrutable mercenaries are troops recruted from ''barracks'' with negative effects.So i can build one of those near Hungary to counter their heavy cavalry and near Bulgarian border i could build economical buildings considering their cavalry is not as heavy as the Hungarian one.


Still keep in mind that Wallachia compared to Bulgaria is weaker in melee,more vulnerable to missiles,more vulnerable at charges and only better in ranged combat.
This is still speculation,maybe you will balance wallachian shock troops to have high defence so they can stand up in a long melee and not bet all on the initial charge and hope the enemy morale breacks because that will not work with knights and boyors fighting on foot.
There is always time for balancing after the first release.Just speaking my mind.

Two words about you and the rest of the team : awesome work