UKIP? Are extremist, Conservative or centre but cross floor ideals or something else?

[G-Megas-Doux]

I am middle class, eligable to vote in the UKGE and in my twenties. I have always felt that the best politics have been those of the centre. The problem is that the Centre has a choice between both the right and the left. Often my views differ from the standard cherry picking which is often the main centre views in Britain.

For the last 13 years I have lived in a Britain which has become radicly Left wing and socialist. To my feeling it has become unstable and non productive almost similar to the distopia of the novel 1984. I have never been convinced by large state apperatus societies, looking historicly I found them to be oppressive, expensive and non contributory.

Recognising that I have centre right preferances I am likely to vote Conservative as I would like to see a more aspirational society not bogged down in administration. I would also like to make it clear that I have recognised good things in left wing ideals such as universal health care and education. However I feel that these are now recognised even by the right wing as neccessary. Also I do not wish to see extremist parties in power.

My quandry is that I recently took the oportunity to read the UKIP manifesto and found myself agreeing to almost all things in it. Historicly extremists try and hide themselves in populist policies that benifit the majority. The BNP do this but I have no desire to see them in any possition of authority.

Perhaps I have become the victim of wishful thinking as I do not like the idea of being victim to Europe due to current government trends of submission on most (if not all) European requests to the UK with no mutual and mostly one way to Europe benifits. I rather found the manifesto convincing, (Not enough to vote in this election as it will not remove the Labour seat from the stronghold and the Conservatives are next nearest) I would like to know other peoples opinions and reasons on UKIP.

Are they the BNP with a better disguise?

Are they genuine old fashioned Conservatives?

Do they believe they are non racist and trying to make the best of the nation and its people?

Are they an organisation which are anywhere like its appealing ideals?

Or any other question about them one wishes to ask and discuss in an explored and explained opinion.

Here is the website the manifesto is linked off this.

http://www.ukip.org/

I recognise that there are threads regarding the general election here and that I may have missed the discussion elsewhere with my time away from TWC. Also I recognise that other people with have differing convictions as to the right party to vote for or may feel that socialists are doing a good job. I dont feel that they are however I would still like the opinions on UKIP from all who take the time to review the question and the material that the organisation put out.

[Archus]

Farage is a bad ambassador for this country and doesn't deserve any power.

[Jom]

UKIP resort to populist, insulting strategies and their MEPs behave shamefully.

[G-Megas-Doux]

I just checked a few things on Nigel Farage. May I ask which parts of his career he has been particularly or generally bad at so I could understand your view point, please?

Edit, or what the MEP's are doing to behave shamefully. As I understand it they are part of a group which is determined to prevent large scale EU power over national governments and this group covers several nations. I admit however I have not followed their progress over the last year as I did not vote UKIP when the Euro elections were on so I would appreciate instances for examples.

[Archus]

I just checked a few things on Nigel Farage. May I ask which parts of his career he has been particularly or generally bad at so I could understand your view point, please?

His abusive address to the President of the European Council.
Farage

[Syron]

His abusive address to the President of the European Council.
Farage

The puppet deserves everything he gets! If you knew what's going on you'd be angry too.......


I must say that while I find it hard to support the party given what I know about it behind the scenes, I find they do have some of the best speakers in either parliament. Just a shame they don't utilise it more.

[Karklos]

The puppet deserves everything he gets! If you knew what's going on you'd be angry too.......


I must say that while I find it hard to support the party given what I know about it behind the scenes, I find they do have some of the best speakers in either parliament. Just a shame they don't utilise it more.

What do you know about them "behind the scenes" that you dont like?

[Syron]

What do you know about them "behind the scenes" that you dont like?

Nothing sinister if that's what you mean.

Mainly just the attitude of those I've spoken with towards things which is even more Neolib than their policies!

That and how truly and utterly incompetent some in high positions are, frankly as far as I can see it's only the money from donors like Stuart Wheeler that has kept them together. Now they've pissed off many of their donors through a string of cock-ups they're not very well as a party at the moment.

[Jom]

It really is a pathetic attack. Why all the ad hominems? Like I said: they're a populist party.

[G-Megas-Doux]

Just looked into that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8535121.stm

I cant see the need in calling Belgium a non country or using the term damp rag when referring to Van Rompuy. However I would not say that this is particularly different to a heated exchange in the house of commons. It is only that Van Rompuy does not wish to identify the man as his opposition and a large proportion of MEPs come from parties who are commited to forming the EU.

It seems likely to be an attention grabber, which is what the attempt is for. From what I see he and the Italian Francesco Speroni are the effective opposition to an united EU.

http://www.efdgroup.eu/

It seems that Farage is making a deliberately consistant and loud (if rude) objection against the EU. It must also be remembered that he is not the only ambassador from the UK to Europe there are 72 MEPs of which UKIP make up only 13.

[Syron]

I am, politically speaking, somewhere in between UKIP and the BNP, so take what I say with a pinch of salt.

I would also like to make it clear that I have recognised good things in left wing ideals such as universal health care and education. However I feel that these are now recognised even by the right wing as neccessary.

Well then you are not going to like UKIP, where many members don't "recognise" this. Go look up Daniel Hannan's thoughts on the NHS, he's nominally a Conservative MEP but he is a big pal of Farage (UKIP's former leader) and widely respected within UKIP from the people I've spoken to.

Are they the BNP with a better disguise?

No, although there are a number of areas where they somewhat agree but for rather different reasons. There are also many differences, take for example to the NHS which many UKIP members are quite hostile.

Are they genuine old fashioned Conservatives?

Depends what you mean by old fashioned Conservatives, if you mean more like Thatcher than Cameron then yes, if you mean like pre-Thatcherite Conservatives no.

For most of UKIP's life it has been dominated by Neoliberals/Libertarians. It does have other factions however represented for example by Paul Nuttall's which is more left-leaning. It's also now rather amusingly being influenced by it's allies in the European Parliament to be rather more authoritarian and socially conservative, which has pissed of the Libertarians no end and led to the ejection of Nikki Sinclaire.

Do they believe they are non racist and trying to make the best of the nation and its people?

There are many different views, most of the leadership are very hot on political correctness. However there are many in the lower-ranks who are more conservative.

[Defianc4]

I am, politically speaking, somewhere in between UKIP and the BNP, so take what I say with a pinch of salt.



Well then you are not going to like UKIP, where many members don't "recognise" this. Go look up Daniel Hannan's thoughts on the NHS, he's nominally a Conservative MEP but he is a big pal of Farage (UKIP's former leader) and widely respected within UKIP from the people I've spoken to.





No, although there are a number of areas where they somewhat agree but for rather different reasons. There are also many differences, take for example to the NHS which many UKIP members are quite hostile.




Depends what you mean by old fashioned Conservatives, if you mean more like Thatcher than Cameron then yes, if you mean like pre-Thatcherite Conservatives no.

For most of UKIP's life it has been dominated by Neoliberals/Libertarians. It does have other factions however represented for example by Paul Nuttall's which is more left-leaning. It's also now rather amusingly being influenced by it's allies in the European Parliament to be rather more authoritarian and socially conservative, which has pissed of the Libertarians no end and led to the ejection of Nikki Sinclaire.



There are many different views, most of the leadership are very hot on political correctness. However there are many in the lower-ranks who are more conservative.

Sounds like the majority of Americans.

[Archus]

I don't like the situation or Mr von Rompuy anymore than Farage does, but that doesn't detract from the fact he represents our country in a Europe which has never been overly enamoured with us.

[Syron]

I don't like the situation or Mr von Rompuy anymore than Farage does, but that doesn't detract from the fact he represents our country in a Europe which has never been overly enamoured with us.

What's the worst they'll do, chuck us out of the EU?!

[Dr. Croccer]

What's the worst they'll do, chuck us out of the EU?!

Erm, yes.


Kiss your ass goodbye when they refuse to trade with you. The EU still is the biggest and most powerful market in the world. 10% of the British workforce has jobs related directly to import and export to and from the EU. More than half of Britain's exports go to the EU. Business costs abroad have been considerably lowered. If Britain is kicked out of the EU then it will have a gigantic gap in it's economy.

[Xen]

Erm, yes.


Kiss your ass goodbye when they refuse to trade with you.

Hahaha, as if that would ever happen. They'd lose a lot of money as well, it would never happen.

I like Nigel Farage, he doesnt give a what people think of him, he just gives it to them how it is.

[Dr. Croccer]

Hahaha, as if that would ever happen. They'd lose a lot of money as well, it would never happen.

The UK benefits more from the EU than the other way around. If the EU lost Britain it wouldn't cripple it, but for Britain there's a large chance that it might be crippled.

[G-Megas-Doux]

I have a GPRS (Mobile broadband connection which runs at narrowband rates) connection to the internet so a slow connection for youtube so I have just watched the whole video.

The ad Hominens are for effect, clarity and to allow the point to come accross over opposition dissaproval.

I would like to see the speach that the EU President gave earlier in the day.

Thankyou Syron for your post to compare with the BNP. In truth I was thinking conservative pre Edward Heath. I am just trying to get an overal view to their whole party standpoint.

I looked at Daniel Hannan on the internet a very colourful individual but I dont agree with him on the NHS.

[Archus]

Getting kicked out of the EU would only sour British relationships with many countries. How much do you think the Belgians appreciated being called a "non-country"

[Erik]

How much do you think the Belgians appreciated being called a "non-country"

Many Belgians agree with that classification themselves.

I still don't think Farage does anything to improve the national stereotype held by many Europeans.

Hmmm, I think his teeth are quite decent for a Brit.



As for other British stereotypes: they are mostly positive anyways.