New PC Build

[Cyrus the Virus]

Greetings fellow basement dwellers. Shtay awhile and listen!

This is the thread, which purpose is intended for my PC build soon into the future.



So I had plans to start ahead a little, with a new monitor; Benq G2420HD 24".
Cost about € 200 and is said to well worth its price.

For OS I had thought to use an SSD disk, so I wanted an extra disk to keep the games on. Had something in mind of 500+ GB. Preferably Western Digital, no? This I will use on my current PC also before new build. Though unsure if my PSU can provide any additional cables for it. I recall I had used the two available.

No 10k RPM disk. Cost more than it's worth.

Have the suggestion that is Western Digital Caviar SE16 500GB SATA2 for 49.99?
Not entirely sure of this one. For extra € 10 I can get with 32 cache instead of 16.

Inputs are welcome, that's why I'm here.

Consists of so far;

Mouse: Logitech MX518 pre-owned
Keyboard: Logitech Internet 350 Keyboard pre-owned (know it's cheap, so what?)
Hard drive: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB ordered and installed on old machine *15th April
Monitor: LG W2220P-BF ordered and installed on old PC *22th April

[29 days later]

Samsung Spinpoint F3 range is what you want for a hard drive, the 1Tb model is the fastest 7200RPM drive on the market today.

[Cyrus the Virus]

Samsung Spinpoint F3 eh? That would be HD103SJ?
Sounds good then. I take your word on it. +rep.

Already have two Samsung Spinpoints but they're older and smaller capacity..

Just looked inside the PC, and was right about the cable problem. Fortunately I have a spare adapter to fix that issue so we're fine there.
But then there's the cables who goes from the front (On/Off button etc), they awfully go near the HDD's and are pretty stretched now, though think I can fix it.


Still want people's opinion on monitor.

[Cyrus the Virus]

I believe I will ditch the SSD idea, hard. Seeing as I won't be able to install games on the partition...
Sure I get faster OS loadup, and faster startup on programs and all that shite.
The thing is, I don't do any multitasking, neither do I use heavy applications such as Photoshop.

So what's the use?

Then it is off to the question whether if my Samsung HD250HJ 250GB Internal SATA 8MB 7200RPM can cut it as a system drive. Because the F3 will be where the games will be at. Period.

House MD, if you are out there, perhaps I can tweak it and optimize in some way to increase performance?

Heed the call!

[HansDuet]

So what's the use?

Sure I get faster OS loadup, and faster startup on programs and all that shite.

I think thats pretty significant.

And why can't you install games on it?

[Roman_Man#3]

Why can't you install games onto your SSD? Barring that, why can't you install an OS onto the Spinpoint as well as the games?

[Cyrus the Virus]

The SSD's are not big enough for games! Unless I am willingly to pay the pitiful amount of € 1.400.
There are more important components such as CPU and GPU to focus the money on.

When it comes to the other HDD, I have made the decision of keeping games and OS separate.
For a better overview and will be less cluttered. Is said to increase performance as well..
HansDuet, you can speak your mind with "pretty significant".


Back to other item, the monitor.
Received no feedback for it earlier. No worries, have already thought of other monitors.

So now I have;

DELL 2209WA

Has no HDMI,
DVI and HDMI are virtually the same, so does not matter?
22 ", E-IPS and "only" with 1680 x 1050 resolution.

LG W2220P-BF

22”, IPS has HDMI and adjustable
Is notably cheaper *I think*, found some site. WAS WRONG!
Minus is Energy consumption

[HansDuet]

The SSD's are not big enough for games! Unless I am willingly to pay the pitiful amount of € 1.400.
There are more important components such as CPU and GPU to focus the money on.

Aight.

If you cant find room for couple of games and OS in 80gb (You can get a very good Intel X-25G2 80gb for 220€) SSD you've made your decision. Sure CPU and GPU are more important in gaming but once you got them good, this is the next best thing. Not 8gb or ram or like that...

HansDuet, you can speak your mind with "pretty significant".

You said it yourself. Everythings a lot faster.

[Cyrus the Virus]

Aight.

If you cant find room for couple of games and OS in 80gb (You can get a very good Intel X-25G2 80gb for 220€) SSD you've made your decision. Sure CPU and GPU are more important in gaming but once you got them good, this is the next best thing. Not 8gb or ram or like that...

I don't want just a few games..Todays games are so large in size.

I still can be persuaded..

You said it yourself. Everythings a lot faster.

Yeah but the games only get better load times.
It does not affect FPS or other things.
Yet, I can see how a faster OS is convenient.

How does your OS/PC function?
You recently went with SSD, right?

[HansDuet]

I don't want just a few games..Todays games are so large in size.

Yeah but the games only get better load times.
It does not affect FPS or other things.

I'd put the ones with longest loading times on SSD.

How does your OS/PC function?
You recently went with SSD, right?

Can't speak from personal experience yet.

I will go SSD soon (already ordered it, should get it in couple of days) and since its only puny 30gb its pretty much OS and important stuff only. Should make it fast. At least a lot of people are giving positive comments about them. For storage I got old HDD's.

I will surely tell what it does for this thing once I get it.

[Cyrus the Virus]

I'd put the ones with longest loading times on SSD.

Yes, naturally.

I looked up the Intel one you mentioned. It's below 200 € (2000 SEK) in Sweden. I could buy two and RAID them or something.
...Or perhaps one is enough to start with, lol. Should not overkill here.

Can't speak from personal experience yet.

I will go SSD soon (already ordered it, should get it in couple of days) and since its only puny 30gb its pretty much OS and important stuff only. Should make it fast. At least a lot of people are giving positive comments on them. For storage I got old HDD's.

I will surely tell what it does for this thing once I get it.

Ok, got a little ahead of ourselves there. Thought you already had it.

[Simetrical]

You can put the game or two you're currently playing on SSD, and leave all other games on a normal disk. Surely you aren't playing 80 GB worth of games at once?

I found my Intel SSD provided almost no benefit over a regular hard disk, but a) I have plenty of RAM, b) I almost never reboot (94 days uptime as we speak), and c) I don't use big apps like games on this computer, just web browsing and such. I'm going to try moving my SSD to my gaming computer and see how it goes . . . Dragon Age could sure do with shorter level load times.

[Cyrus the Virus]

You can put the game or two you're currently playing on SSD, and leave all other games on a normal disk. Surely you aren't playing 80 GB worth of games at once?

Do you mean I should transfer the games back forth between the disks?
A.k.a., those who are actively played, and those who are not.

I was mostly thinking "heavy" titles like GTA IV, Crysis, The Witcher, Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2 on SSD.
Those needs a little resource. Most other games are older and runs pretty fine. But many of those mentioned are 10+ GB in install size, so all can't fit in, if we say I have roughly 50 GB left after installing OS.

I found my Intel SSD provided almost no benefit over a regular hard disk, but a) I have plenty of RAM, b) I almost never reboot (94 days uptime as we speak), and c) I don't use big apps like games on this computer, just web browsing and such.

Yeah, that don't say much. You're hardly even using it when on Linux.

I'm going to try moving my SSD to my gaming computer and see how it goes . . . Dragon Age could sure do with shorter level load times.

Sounds interesting. What gaming computer is that, the regular hard drive you use is?

[Simetrical]

Do you mean I should transfer the games back forth between the disks?
A.k.a., those who are actively played, and those who are not.

I was mostly thinking "heavy" titles like GTA IV, Crysis, The Witcher, Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2 on SSD.
Those needs a little resource. Most other games are older and runs pretty fine. But many of those mentioned are 10+ GB in install size, so all can't fit in, if we say I have roughly 50 GB left after installing OS.

Yeah, just move them back and forth. Unless you randomly select what game you play every time you sit down at your computer. I generally only play one game at once, and keep on going until I finish it, then start another. So I can just move the unused one back to the hard disk and install the new one, or whatever.

I did this on Linux with symbolic links and mount points. It should be doable on Windows too, but I'm not aware of the exact steps necessary. Vista has symbolic links, I've heard, and maybe you can use "junction points" (not totally sure what those are, but I've heard they're similar). I've never actually tried this, though.

Alternatively, you could just move all the files with no fancy tricks. But the game won't work until you move them back, because the registry entries will point to the wrong place. Or you could uninstall it, and reinstall it. You could also fiddle with NTFS compression. Lots of fun things to consider. Not totally sure what the best solution is on Windows.

Actually, I wonder if using transparent compression would be a performance win on a regular disk. It seems likely, if you're disk-bound. But not if the game assets are already compressed. Hmm.

Sounds interesting. What gaming computer is that, the regular hard drive you use is?

The primary disk is actually only 80 GB on that machine anyway, so I'll just do a byte-for-byte copy from the current disk to the SSD. Windows won't even notice the difference.

I actually just experienced what it was like to have level loads not be disk-bound in Dragon Age. I loaded an area, and it took like 20 seconds. Then the game crashed, I restarted, loaded the save, and it took like 2 seconds. The disk's data was already in the page cache, so no I/O latency. I have no idea why games don't do some kind of readahead. Or maybe they do, but it's not enough? They should be reading level data well before you hit the transition point, if there's free RAM . . .

[Simetrical]

Actually, I wonder if using transparent compression would be a performance win on a regular disk. It seems likely, if you're disk-bound. But not if the game assets are already compressed. Hmm.

Benchmarks say not a win, at least for Dragon Age. If anything, compressing all the game files slightly slowed down load. I measured 23 seconds on both runs uncompressed with cold cache, 5 seconds hot, and with compression got 24 seconds and 5 seconds. (Obviously, I rebooted between runs to clear OS page cache.)

Oh well. It decreased the game files' size from 15.3 GB to 10.4 GB, which would be nice anyway. Apparently, using transparent compression on OS X was helpful for Firefox, although maybe they use a different algorithm to NTFS.

[HansDuet]

Got the new parts.

Just got it up and running installing drivers and stuff atm but first and foremost, this thing boots Win 7 ultimate pretty fast. Everything is "snappy" ofc its a newly installed windows but still.

More about the subject later.

[Cyrus the Virus]

Alternatively, you could just move all the files with no fancy tricks. But the game won't work until you move them back, because the registry entries will point to the wrong place. Or you could uninstall it, and reinstall it. You could also fiddle with NTFS compression. Lots of fun things to consider. Not totally sure what the best solution is on Windows.

I'm pretty sure games can work without the registry entries.
Ultimately, it could depend on the game.
I have had copies of RTW 1.5 and 1.6 patches on an different HDD, so I just copy the root folder when I install modifications.
No problems with those.

I actually just experienced what it was like to have level loads not be disk-bound in Dragon Age. I loaded an area, and it took like 20 seconds. Then the game crashed, I restarted, loaded the save, and it took like 2 seconds. The disk's data was already in the page cache, so no I/O latency. I have no idea why games don't do some kind of readahead. Or maybe they do, but it's not enough? They should be reading level data well before you hit the transition point, if there's free RAM . . .

What patch do you have for Dragon Age?
The latest addition (1.3) increased loading times significantly in i.e Orzammar. That is where you would see the differences.

Have in mind with the 1.3 patch comes bugs and more frequent crashes..


You seem to have plenty of ideas, regarding the rest you have written.

[Simetrical]

Yeah, I've seen a CTD every hour or two on patch 1.3, and played 55 hours through 1.0 with no instability at all. Kind of annoying, but not a huge deal. I wish more game companies would figure out that games should really be polished, the way Valve or Blizzard does, rather than chucking them out the door with lots of minor (but not-totally-game-breaking) flaws like CTDs. Oh well.

[Cyrus the Virus]

Same here, ran pretty fine before. Ridiculous to see patches that are supposed to fix things, makes it worse instead.
There is a huge thread at the Bioware forums. AFAIK not a single Bioware reply on the matter.
Even a moderator of the forum has brought the issue to them but nothing seems to happen.
Not.a.single.word.

Seeing how Blizzard still patches old games to near perfection is admirable.

[Simetrical]

It's a shame, since it's such a good game overall.