Planning a middle-earth EU3mod

[Bloody_Ambition]

Hey, haven't been in this forum ages(I've switched to EU3), but recently I've started thinking about making a mod for EU3 based in a fantasy world rather than a historic world and remembered this forum and thought it might help to ask for advice here? Basically I'm just looking for advice on whether or not I should set it in a middle-earth world(1st,2nd, or 3rdage?), or if perhaps I should just draw up a new map entirely that simply has middle earth themes to it? Sorry if I shouldn't have posted this here

Plus, people here who have EU3 as well as total war, do you think perhaps EU3 wouldn't work very well on a map of western middle-earth(one continent, one ocean, etc might make it a bit dull)? I mean I could solve that by putting this in the first age and adding Valinor but it's hard enough getting lore, names, maps etc on the third age let alone the first...lol.

[Jean=A=Luc]

Sorry if I shouldn't have posted this here

Well if you're talking about Europa Universalis III you probably should have posted it here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...play.php?f=323

But w/e.

[Painis_Cupcake]

My advice for you is aim for the head.

[krasni]

Any game that involves technology research as EU3 does would be hard to adapt to LOTR I would think. Middle earth is almost stagnant in terms of technology advances.

[GreekGlory]

thats an awesome idea! im a huge EU fan and any little bit i can help i will

Any game that involves technology research as EU3 does would be hard to adapt to LOTR I would think. Middle earth is almost stagnant in terms of technology advances.

you just have it at the beginning of an age and have them research things like plate armor instead of chain mail, professional soldiers etc. basically the things that were researched during the renaissance.
what would be a neat idea is if you started in the fourth age or something and just played off the war of the ring like FATW for Rome, or even after that so that fire-arms and what-not could be researched in terms of middle-earth

[Bloody_Ambition]

thats an awesome idea! im a huge EU fan and any little bit i can help i will



you just have it at the beginning of an age and have them research things like plate armor instead of chain mail, professional soldiers etc. basically the things that were researched during the renaissance.
what would be a neat idea is if you started in the fourth age or something and just played off the war of the ring like FATW for Rome, or even after that so that fire-arms and what-not could be researched in terms of middle-earth

Cool, glad to see someone enthusiastic other than me I did have a thought about making a fourth age mod, but is there many maps/lore for it? I assumed it would be pretty difficult to base a mod on. Plus, a lot of the cool stuff has died out by the Fourth Age

[GreekGlory]

Cool, glad to see someone enthusiastic other than me I did have a thought about making a fourth age mod, but is there many maps/lore for it? I assumed it would be pretty difficult to base a mod on. Plus, a lot of the cool stuff has died out by the Fourth Age

just search around the FATW forum over at the rome:tw end of the site they have some stuff about that, you can also set up a thread here asking any hard-core lore fans to brain storm up some stuff the map can be the same just zoomed in a lot with more, smaller provinces it would take time to research but it wouldnt be that challenging and im sure the the eu3 forum will have lotr fans too

[Bloody_Ambition]

Any game that involves technology research as EU3 does would be hard to adapt to LOTR I would think. Middle earth is almost stagnant in terms of technology advances.

That's partly why I'm thinking about making it middle-earth themed rather than actually being middle-earth. Though I imagine there'd be ways around that, such as renaming them to something more lore-justified, eg. Goverment Tech could become Control or Administration(along with different 'goverment types' that are unlocked at higher levels). So it would be more a case of investing in being able to use already available technology, rather than investing in technology itself. Or perhaps the opposite, you start with 80% of techs and are forced to try and invest in maintaining it and if lucky gaining a bit. That may not be possible but eh it's something I could attempt.

[Bloody_Ambition]

Hmm taking your idea of a time after the Third Age I've created a prologue for a new Age altogether. I'm still considering putting the mod in the 2nd/3rd/4th Age but I'm also toying with the idea of just making one up from scratch. It would allow for a lot more flexibility and would also mean that if I so choose I could make a stab at creating Eastern Middle-Earth and the continents that were created when Arda was made round so that the map would be a more ideal size. It's really late and I really need to sleep so I'll probly have a re-read of the prologue tommorrow and think it's rubbish but eh:

'Based on the world of Tolkien in a time after the end of the Third Age.

The wars of the rings were over, the fourth age had come and gone, the elves had left for the west, the dwarves had seemingly disappeared off the face of Arda, and the orcs had fled far into the east and disappeared. The race of Men however, remained, flourished, and multiplied.


Many millenia had passed by, and the old world had become known as nothing but a myth by all but a few. The notion of an ‘Elf’, an ‘Orc’ or even a ‘Dwarf’ seemed preposterous, and the ‘fairy tales’ were removed from all official archives of the mannish kingdoms. The minority who still believed in the myths created religious sects where they kept the history alive and passed the stories of old down the generations.

These sects were eventually deemed ‘cults’ and all who joined were looked upon as nut-jobs or fools. This general disapproval of the religious sects drove many of them to leave the mannish cities and find new homes. Some searched for the great forests of the elves, some searched for the rich underground homes of the dwarves, and some fled to caves deep under Arda, in search of orcs.
The long dormant wheels of change had finally begun to turn...'

[GreekGlory]

not too shabby if i say so

[Bloody_Ambition]

I've made a sketch of a middle-earth map and have finished the river map of it and am going to need to start thinking about the unknown continents and eastern middle-earth that was never mapped or discussed much by J.R.R. If anyone wants to draw up some ideas I'd be greatful

Tolkien saw Arda as a mythological history of the real Earth and considered his world's geography slowly becoming the real world's geography so this could either be a blessing or a curse to make a map on, I mean it'd take away the whole middle-earth feel if it resembled modern day geography too much so ehhh I'm really not sure what to draw.

Worse comes to worse it could just be a map of known middle-earth(what's already in third age total war and fourth age total war) with permanent terra incognita at the edges to stop south-north and east-west traveling.

And about the prologue I made, the idea behind it was that it may allow the return of elves, dwarves and orcs to the scene under the religions; Orc Cult, Elven Cult, and Dwarven Cult(the idea came from tolkiens abandoned work on the fourth age where he considered orc cults springing up in Gondor).

These three religions could be fanatics trying at every step to bring history back to life and therefore their techs could be centered on becoming more like their cults respective race, and their sliders could be centered on running their society more like their cult's respective race.

The game could start perhaps two-hundred years or more after the cults have become established, and would it be totally unrealistic to imagine them slowly turning into orc/elf/dwarf lookalikes? Selective reproduction, and in the orcs case, plain and simple torture and malnourishment, could perhaps over the generations seemingly bring the extinct races back to middle-earth? (excluding elven immortality)

[waffleman_yay]

middle earth themed is a brilliant idea, i mean hey "Thera: Legacy of the Great Torment" has orc gunners in it, so i don't see how technological advances could hurt.

[Jean=A=Luc]

"Thera: Legacy of the Great Torment" has orc gunners in it, so i don't see how technological advances could hurt.

They're lizardmen actually.

[Tarantino]

First of all, I'd like the idea very much. EU3 is my most loved game since the invetion of realtime-strategy. I have searched in the past for such a mod and surprise! I did not find any.
I would have several ideas. Don't really like the one with the fourth age. I'm sorry, but i's not really that interesting.
You should start with in the timeline after the fall of Numenor, it's there where it's getting really interesting.
Every faction is kind of balanced, the evil under Sauron starts to rise and there are two pretty awesome wars after that.
And you do not have the nearly impossible task to continue telling Tolkiens work. I think that would be inappropriate.
When you choose this, I would gladly help, I have no skills in making mods, but I am able to write and research.
If you are interested in my help, feel free to contact me. I will gladly help with whatever I am capable of!

Tarantino

[GreekGlory]

First of all, I'd like the idea very much. EU3 is my most loved game since the invetion of realtime-strategy. I have searched in the past for such a mod and surprise! I did not find any.
I would have several ideas. Don't really like the one with the fourth age. I'm sorry, but i's not really that interesting.
You should start with in the timeline after the fall of Numenor, it's there where it's getting really interesting.
Every faction is kind of balanced, the evil under Sauron starts to rise and there are two pretty awesome wars after that.
And you do not have the nearly impossible task to continue telling Tolkiens work. I think that would be inappropriate.
When you choose this, I would gladly help, I have no skills in making mods, but I am able to write and research.
If you are interested in my help, feel free to contact me. I will gladly help with whatever I am capable of!

Tarantino

the whole point of a post 3rd age is the technology aspect, middle-earth is stagnant technology wise atm

[Bloody_Ambition]

When you choose this, I would gladly help, I have no skills in making mods, but I am able to write and research.
If you are interested in my help, feel free to contact me. I will gladly help with whatever I am capable of!
Tarantino

Thanks, I'll think about it and keep you in mind if I decide to have the mod go in this direction.

[Tarantino]

Mmh, yeah but one could bypass this fact. There are possibilities. For example there are new armors invented, the elven forges improve their skills stuff like that. I think it's easier to create several of that events, than to continue Tolkiens Saga. Also I would guess that an invented era after the known facts of the fourth age would be of little interest.

[Bloody_Ambition]

I've drawn up a possible eastern side of middle-earth so hopefully at the very least the map will have one full continent, even if it is half improvised.

Mmh, yeah but one could bypass this fact. There are possibilities. For example there are new armors invented, the elven forges improve their skills stuff like that. I think it's easier to create several of that events, than to continue Tolkiens Saga. Also I would guess that an invented era after the known facts of the fourth age would be of little interest.

New amours and forges improving skills didn't really happen much in the third age, it was a down-hill trend for all races except men who were relatively stagnant until the third age ended.

I think it could still be an interesting game if it takes place after tolkiens writings finished, it would give a glimpse into one of the possibilites that was left open when tolkien stopped writing. I admit, it would be boring if elves dwarves and orcs weren't able to return but I think as so much was left open there's plenty of flexibility to make excuses or reasons for them to still be around in the far future of middle-earth.

The mod could be set in the first age so as to get rid of the tech problem but then I'd get the problems of what role Morgoth would play, what role Aman would play, etc. so overall I just think it'll be easier to base the game on a possible future of middle-earth.

[Tarantino]

But the Problem is, that you have to come up with several new nations, new Kingdoms and stuff like that. After all that the middle-earth feeling will be gone...

[Bloody_Ambition]

But the Problem is, that you have to come up with several new nations, new Kingdoms and stuff like that. After all that the middle-earth feeling will be gone...

Well I think the Reunited Kingdom and a virtually independant Shire that could start perhaps as a vassal would allow for two familiar names right there. As for the cult kingdoms, names would logically borrow from the past as part of their obsession of bringing the old world back, so nation names such as Rivendale or Khazud-Dum could be viable for minor-cult states.