Beck on the Christian founding of America

[SigniferOne]

Glenn Beck is a controversial American TV personality, who has made a surprisingly well researched show on religious beliefs of the American Founding Fathers, which goes contrary to a widedespread belief in said founders' indifference to religious matters.

Example: leading American jurist and one of the original Supreme Court Justices, writing that a country cannot have good civil law without a notion of divine law.

Congress officially endowing and establishing editions of the Bible.

Massachussetts having an State religion, along with 8 of 12 other original states of America.

[MaximiIian]

Oh, look, more made-up bull from Glenn Beck.
Nothing that guy says can be taken seriously. Especially such blatant falsehoods.

The fact that you seem to think it is "well-researched" just shows that you're ignoring the facts in order to confirm your own worldview.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Oh, look, more made-up bull from Glenn Beck.
Nothing that guy says can be taken seriously. Especially such blatant falsehoods.

The fact that you seem to think it is "well-researched" just shows that you're ignoring the facts in order to confirm your own worldview.

Don't bash things you don't understand just because you disagree with them. It makes you look ignorant.

[SigniferOne]

Let me guess, you didn't watch anything did you.

[jsktrogdor]

Let me guess, you didn't watch anything did you.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

IT DOESNT ING MATTER WHAT THE FOUNDING FATHERS THOUGHT THEYVE BEEN DEAD FOR OVER 200 YEARS. WHEN THEY WERE ALIVE THE GREATEST SOCIAL ISSUE WAS STATE VS FEDERAL POWER AND OUR BIGGEST THREAT WAS AN INVASION FROM ENGLAND.

Stop asking what Albert Einstein, or Thomas Jefferson, or Constatine, or Keanu Reeves thinks about religion. Think for your ing self for once.

[MaximiIian]

No, actually, I watched this on television before you even started this thread.
And, as usually with Beck, it's all blatant lies and taking statements out of context.

[SigniferOne]

it's all blatant lies and taking statements out of context.

Alright, care to give examples?

[Arch-hereticK]

Lol, blatant propaganda by Beck? I'm shocked.
Who says cliched stereotypes aren't funny.

[Fiyenyaa]

Right. Because cherry-picking examples of religiosity is far more intellectually honest than looking in your damn constitution.
You should be glad you live in one of the few countries which seperates church and state officially, instead of trying to undo that legacy.

[Augment]

Republics arent meant to endorse religion, they should be secular or state atheist.
Americans founding fathers knew this.

[SigniferOne]

Right. Because cherry-picking examples of religiosity is far more intellectually honest than looking in your damn constitution.

I'm guessing you haven't watched anything?

You should be glad you live in one of the few countries which seperates church and state officially, instead of trying to undo that legacy.

Umm I don't want to undo it.

Republics arent meant to endorse religion, they should be secular or state atheist.
Americans founding fathers knew this.

Then why did they set up official religions in 8 of the 13 states?

[Fiyenyaa]

I'm guessing you haven't watched anything?

Because if I disagree with you, then I must be wrong?

Then why did they set up official religions in 8 of the 13 states?

Please allow me to ask a question - do you live in the United State of America, or the Republic of New York?
When the USA gained it's independence, the style of government it would take was not at all settled on. There was even no firm agreement on whether it should be one country or many - states had competing claims of land with each other, there was no agreed capital city, and various other disagreements. France even sent an ambassador to each of the thirteen states.
The point is, the USA was not a cohesive and fully-formed country when it first appeared - these arguments were settled when the Constitition was agreed on in the 1790s; one of the first acts of government was to abolish official churches in states, one of the first treaties ever signed (the treaty of Tripoli) expressely states that the USA is not a Christian country. These are the acts of those who created and shaped your country.

And one more thing - can I remind you that secularism is not state atheism. It is state religious neutrality. Many of those who are of a theistic bent tend to be annoyed when some kind of religious ruling is reached where they are not allowed to preach to school children, or to stop their children getting medical treatment: however, they aren't curbing your religious rights - they are simply removing the favouritism they were previously (and wrongly) giving you.

[SigniferOne]

Would them being Atheists make us automatically an Atheist nation?

The point is, which principles, and where do they come from, form an important part of the American founding principles. A study has been done on all quotations of the founders from all sources, in support of their ideas. The majority of quotes they made came from the Bible. Again you would know all this if you'd just watched the links.

Please allow me to ask a question - do you live in the United State of America, or the Republic of New York?

I live in a federated country of the United States, meaning that my personal state is sovereign and can do everything it wants which wasn't specifically assigned to the federal government.

one of the first acts of government was to abolish official churches in states

Really? Then why did all of the state churches continue into existence long after the Constitution was signed?


"The First Amendment to the US Constitution explicitly forbids the U.S. federal government from enacting any law respecting a religious establishment, and thus forbids either designating an official church for the United States, or interfering with State and local official churches — which were common when the First Amendment was enacted. It did not prevent state governments from establishing official churches. Connecticut continued to do so until it replaced its colonial Charter with the Connecticut Constitution of 1818; Massachusetts retained an establishment of religion in general until 1833."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_r...tes_of_America

one of the first treaties ever signed (the treaty of Tripoli) expressely states that the USA is not a Christian country.

Yes only in the sense of officially endorsing a religion, as the First Amendment quite clearly said long before it.

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

I live in a federated country of the United States, meaning that my personal state is sovereign and can do everything it wants which wasn't specifically assigned to the federal government.

You do know that the Supreme Court has over the years taken away most of the independence states once possessed, that the states are now really nothing but the Fed's "", - The states have ceded most of their rights to the Fed in exchange for security..which does sort of bring to mind...

""They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Even if it is more a sacrifice of Privilege than a sacrifice of "Liberty"

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

The majority of early American leaders were non religious (including Deists), This is a FACT - even if revisionists can't stand this, in fact, I believe only 2 of the "main" Founding Fathers were Christians.

[SigniferOne]

Does anyone care to look at the facts or not?

I don't want your damn opinion, watch the clips first, and then offer something educated and informed.

[MathiasOfAthens]

What is the poiint of undoing what is already established. It is not big jump to assume our country is wholly mix with not one but dozens of competing religious ideologies. Between the big 3 there are several smaller sects and beliefs, which one should be the dominant one over our country's foreign and domestic affairs. Should Creationism be taught in Public Schools because our countries founders were "Christian?" What is he trying to prove anyway... that our founders were religious or they wrote down somewhere in the constitution that our country was meant to be a Christian Theocracy, and if so when did this chapter get deleted? Glen Beck is a raving ing Lunatic.

I saw these videos already, sorry maybe ill come back and watch it tomorrow.

[SigniferOne]

Should Creationism be taught in Public Schools because our countries founders were "Christian?" Glen Beck is a raving ing Lunatic.

Really, he said that?

I saw these videos already

Are you sure you and I watched the same thing?

What is he trying to prove anyway... that our founders were religious or they wrote down somewhere in the constitution that our country was meant to be a Christian Theocracy?

So let me guess, if our founders were religious then they would've meant for our country to be a theocracy?

I watched it, and most of it is a clever twisting of the facts to say the least.

Oh, like what?

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

So let me guess, if our founders were religious then they would've meant for our country to be a theocracy?

No, but that is the point I am trying to get at - People tend to use the claim "The Founding Father's Were Christian" to justify the claim "We are a Christian Nation - We are less American because we tolerate other faiths, don't teach the bible in schools, etc, etc" (Neither which are substantiated or really have any direct link to each other.) Would them being Atheists make us automatically an Atheist nation? Would them being Deists make us a Deist nation? What if they were Muslim? Many of the same people who claim the direct link between the founding father's "Christian Beliefs" and the religious character of the nation would probably be claiming the exact opposite in all these cases, they "know" they "are right", but would they claim the same if the shoe was on the other foot?

[AK47]

So let me guess, if our founders were religious then they would've meant for our country to be a theocracy?

Any sense of religion at all and they scream the words "theocracy" to extreme exageration.
Anti-religious bigotry is alive and well.