Did America apologize for the Vietnam War?

[Il-Principe]

I've watched a couple of Vietnam films lately and I wonder, if America has ever apologized for starting the war and all the killing. A related question is, did America pay financial compensation to the Vietnamese victims of chemical agents or to the victims of war crimes like My Lai, the Phoenix Program and many others incidents?

[Lord Claremorris]

The Americans didn't start the war. The Vietcong did by resisting French attempts to reconsoliade control of Indo-China. The French were defeated and signed a treaty splitting Vietnam between the North and South. North Vietnam agreed to this, then with blatant aggression invaded South Vietnam, which was under the umbrella of the United States, who anyway clearly stated that it would intervene against the spread of Communism anywhere in the world. So it really wasn't a big secret that the US would help South Vietnam resist North Vietnam. The US has no guilt for this war.

[Chukada1]

The Americans didn't start the war. The Vietcong did by resisting French attempts to reconsoliade control of Indo-China. The French were defeated and signed a treaty splitting Vietnam between the North and South. North Vietnam agreed to this, then with blatant aggression invaded South Vietnam, which was under the umbrella of the United States, who anyway clearly stated that it would intervene against the spread of Communism anywhere in the world. So it really wasn't a big secret that the US would help South Vietnam resist North Vietnam. The US has no guilt for this war.

You mean, aside from supporting a corrupt and foreign imperialistic regime, squish Vietnamese nationalists aspiring to obtain freedom from said corrupt and foreign imperialistic regime?

Um, you are aware that it was the North-Vietnamese backed VC that was responsible for the vast, overwhelming share of "all the killing" by consistently and indiscriminately murdering civilians, and you're expected the United States to apologize over an isolated incident like My Lai?

Get real. Come back when what you know of Vietnam extends outside Hollywood.

You mean the "South Vietnamese" rebels?

[nemgod]

The Americans didn't start the war. The Vietcong did by resisting French attempts to reconsoliade control of Indo-China. The French were defeated and signed a treaty splitting Vietnam between the North and South. North Vietnam agreed to this, then with blatant aggression invaded South Vietnam, which was under the umbrella of the United States, who anyway clearly stated that it would intervene against the spread of Communism anywhere in the world. So it really wasn't a big secret that the US would help South Vietnam resist North Vietnam. The US has no guilt for this war.

Yet you forget the part where part of the agreement was that there would be an election in both sides to find a unified leader of the country. The north allowed it then the south pulled out when it was a full gone conclusion that Ho chi Minh was going to win by a landslide.

This was what started the main conflict between north and south and the North actually had a very legit reason to attack the south. The south Government lost all legitimacy at that point in time.

[hellheaven1987]

The Americans didn't start the war. The Vietcong did by resisting French attempts to reconsoliade control of Indo-China. The French were defeated and signed a treaty splitting Vietnam between the North and South. North Vietnam agreed to this, then with blatant aggression invaded South Vietnam, which was under the umbrella of the United States, who anyway clearly stated that it would intervene against the spread of Communism anywhere in the world. So it really wasn't a big secret that the US would help South Vietnam resist North Vietnam. The US has no guilt for this war.

Hmm, no, VC did not even exist during First Indochina War, and I don't pity French since they were just bastard who teared off their agreement with Vietnamese Nationalists and acted like Imperialists. In the end, French got what they deserved.

[motiv-8]

Um, you are aware that it was the North-Vietnamese backed VC that was responsible for the vast, overwhelming share of "all the killing" by consistently and indiscriminately murdering civilians, and you're expectng the United States to apologize for the whole war over an isolated incident like My Lai?

Get real. Come back when what you know of Vietnam extends outside Hollywood.

[Ishoss]

Um, you are aware that it was the North-Vietnamese backed VC that was responsible for the vast, overwhelming share of "all the killing" by consistently and indiscriminately murdering civilians, and you're expected the United States to apologize over an isolated incident like My Lai?

Get real. Come back when what you know of Vietnam extends outside Hollywood.

Err, so because the Vietcongs were big ass-holes the US can't apologise?

My Lai was wrong and you should apologize. Just like VC should apologise. I've always thought the US had apologised for My Lai honestly. It just seems to silly not too apologise and give compensation.

[Il-Principe]

Um, you are aware that it was the North-Vietnamese backed VC that was responsible for the vast, overwhelming share of "all the killing" by consistently and indiscriminately murdering civilians, and you're expectng the United States to apologize for the whole war over an isolated incident like My Lai?

Get real. Come back when what you know of Vietnam extends outside Hollywood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Force

Tiger Force was a task force of the United States Army, 1st Battalion (Airborne), 327th Infantry Regiment, 1st Brigade (Separate), 101st Airborne Division, which fought in the Vietnam War.

They committed war crimes like

a) the routine torture and execution of prisoners
b)the routine practice of intentionally killing unarmed Vietnamese villagers including men, women, children, and elderly people
c) the routine practice of cutting off and collecting the ears of victims
d) the practice of wearing necklaces composed of human ears
e) the practice of cutting off and collecting the scalps of victims
f) an incident where a young mother was drugged, raped, and then executed
g) an incident where a soldier killed a baby and cut off his or her head after the baby's mother was killed

The US Army covered all incidents up.

Read any book on the Vietnam War, ever.

So, you openly admit that you're just making baseless claims.

Result of America's "liberation":

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Holy ****

Interestingly, when Saddam gassed thousands of Kurds(with US consent btw), he later became the big bad dictator comparable to Hitler, but when Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon agent-oranged millions of people, it was...what?...nothing?...just a footnote in history and not worth mentioning?

Do you have any sources to back up these claims of CIA sabotage?

For the moment wiki will do:

Paramilitary officers from the CIA's Special Activities Division trained and led Hmoung tribesmen in Laos and into Vietnam. The indigenous forces numbered in the tens of thousands and they conducted direct action missions, led by paramilitary officers, against the Communist Pathet Lao forces and their North Vietnamese supporters.[102] The CIA also ran the Phoenix Program and participation MAC-V SOG (Studies and Observations Group), which was originally named the Special Operations Group, but was changed for cover purposes.[103]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam...assassinations

This was during the Kennedy administration (1961-63)

[Boyar Son]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Force

Tiger Force was a task force of the United States Army, 1st Battalion (Airborne), 327th Infantry Regiment, 1st Brigade (Separate), 101st Airborne Division, which fought in the Vietnam War.

They committed war crimes like

a) the routine torture and execution of prisoners
b)the routine practice of intentionally killing unarmed Vietnamese villagers including men, women, children, and elderly people
c) the routine practice of cutting off and collecting the ears of victims
d) the practice of wearing necklaces composed of human ears
e) the practice of cutting off and collecting the scalps of victims
f) an incident where a young mother was drugged, raped, and then executed
g) an incident where a soldier killed a baby and cut off his or her head after the baby's mother was killed

The US Army covered all incidents up.

Not all to uncommon when it came to the enemy either. The US was rather gentle (as always) when it came to war because superpowers were bound by their own rules more often than you think, the presence of reporters, and that the US was capable of much more violence than a few situations you can dig up, for all the soldiers the US sent they did a good job not falling down to the enemies level of barbarity. If you count tiger force, and i remember two more crimes then... in the entire war our side only did 3 war crimes (a personal best for the US, I would have committed more). exaggeration much on our part?

Personally I feel no pity, I favorite civilian kill videos on Youtube frequently, because I'm American and all.

But while these egregious crimes have been trotted out at every opportunity by the anti-war movement, very little attention was paid to the horrendous atrocities committed by the North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong on their own people. One of the end results of the 1968 Tet offensive was the deliberate roundup and murder of as many as 5,000 South Vietnamese civilians--doctors, teachers, lawyers, businessmen--by the NVA/VC during the periods that they held territory. The most widespread atrocities occurred in the Imperial city of Hue. There alone the Communists killed over 3,000 South Vietnamese. This behavior was not widely reported by the press, and either ignored by the anti-war movement at best, or justified by them as necessary in a socialist revolution.

http://www.rjsmith.com/war_myth.html#atrocity

Take this into account, the US owes no apology but to the family members of civilians who were innocent, as any good man would do. the rest is moot, you participate in war, you live by the sword you die by the sword.

[Braindead Colonel]

http://www.rjsmith.com/war_myth.html#atrocity

Take this into account, the US owes no apology but to the family members of civilians who were innocent, as any good man would do. the rest is moot, you participate in war, you live by the sword you die by the sword.

Maybe the point is that the US should not have participated at all?
Maybe the US should not have been involved in the internal matters of another nation, supporting one side of a civil war?

If Napoleon III and France had been allied with the confederates and had committed atrocities against American civilians then I'm sure that would have been just fine and dandy, since americans were already killing eachother anyway, right?

[Tacitursa]

Americans created the reason to enter the vietnam war just like they did with world war 1 and the sinking of the lusitania

and now there in iraq for more reasons and iran will eventually follow.

[43rdFoot]

Maybe the point is that the US should not have participated at all?
Maybe the US should not have been involved in the internal matters of another nation, supporting one side of a civil war?

If Napoleon III and France had been allied with the confederates and had committed atrocities against American civilians then I'm sure that would have been just fine and dandy, since americans were already killing eachother anyway, right?

Yes, because making up situations which have no similarity at all to the actual political and international situation and comparing it to the real historical situation is a valid argument.

[HansDuet]

Well America did not start it. It just got involved.

[Chukada1]

America started it when they chose to support the French Imperialistic Agenda, rather then Vietnamese Independence. Former allies, in the fight against the Japanese Empire.

[HansDuet]

America started it when they chose to support the French Imperialistic Agenda, rather then Vietnamese Independence. Former allies, in the fight against the Japanese Empire.

Uh. No.


I don't get how America started it by siding with one side of the conflict. I guess Soviets can be blamed too with that logic. Supporting communists and all.

[motiv-8]

You mean the "South Vietnamese" rebels?

My God, I really hope you did not just call the VC "South Vietnamese rebels."

America started it when they chose to support the French Imperialistic Agenda, rather then Vietnamese Independence. Former allies, in the fight against the Japanese Empire.

Um, no, America did not support the French imperialistic agenda. They left the French to rot in Indochina and got involved after they were gone.

Err, so because the Vietcongs were big ass-holes the US can't apologise?

The United States has nothing to apologize for. The man responsible for My Lai, Lt. William Calley, apologized publicly for his crime.

[Chukada1]

My God, I really hope you did not just call the VC "South Vietnamese rebels."

The Vietcong was a guerrilla force, indiginious to the South.

Um, no, America did not support the French imperialistic agenda. They left the French to rot in Indochina and got involved after they were gone.

America funded the entire French war effort.

[motiv-8]

The Vietcong was a guerrilla force, indiginious to the South.

Oh wow, you really have been brainwashed.

The VC was created by the North Vietnamese, its first members sent south from North Vietnam to foment rebellion, it was reinforced and supplied consistently from the North, and it took its orders directly from the North.

America funded the entire French war effort.

No, it didn't, you're wrong but I was also wrong, the US became involved in the last few years, but it was not to support the French imperialist agenda (anybody who knows anything about American Pacific policy understands that it was staunchly anti-imperialist, it was not interested in helping European powers regain their hold on colonial holdings after the Japanese were swpt away), but to help prop up the French government which was seen as politically vulnerable to its indigenous Communist Party.

It's the job of leaders to ensure that their personnel doesn't breach any laws and that they follow the rules. It's ultimately the respionsiblity of the guy breaching the crime, but the leaders holds partial responsibility because they should have prevented it.

Umm, with what? A crystal ball and magic wand? Seriously, your comments have nothing in common with reality. That's like holding a detective responsible for the murder he's investigating because he didn't prevent it. The Vietnam War was a particularly stressful one for the men involved, and it shouldn't be surprising to anyone that such a thing would have happened, as disgusting as it is. That's why our entire approach to training, rules of engagement, working with civilians, EVERYTHING has changed from then to today.

[Ishoss]

Oh wow, you really have been brainwashed.

The VC was created by the North Vietnamese, its first members sent south from North Vietnam to foment rebellion, it was reinforced and supplied consistently from the North, and it took its orders directly from the North.


No, it didn't, you're wrong but I was also wrong, the US became involved in the last few years, but it was not to support the French imperialist agenda (anybody who knows anything about American Pacific policy understands that it was staunchly anti-imperialist, it was not interested in helping European powers regain their hold on colonial holdings after the Japanese were swpt away), but to help prop up the French government which was seen as politically vulnerable to its indigenous Communist Party.

Umm, with what? A crystal ball and magic wand? Seriously, your comments have nothing in common with reality. That's like holding a detective responsible for the murder he's investigating because he didn't prevent it. The Vietnam War was a particularly stressful one for the men involved, and it shouldn't be surprising to anyone that such a thing would have happened, as disgusting as it is. That's why our entire approach to training, rules of engagement, working with civilians, EVERYTHING has changed from then to today.

Umm, no. It's the guys at the tops partial responsibility that the guys in the middle and at the bottom do their job according to standards. Maybe the guy who made the mistake shouldn't have been the guy to make the call? It's the guys at the top who gave him the chance to make the call. Thus they hold partial responsiblity for his actions.

The fact that 'everything' has changed, wouldn't that prove that you made mistakes and you acknowledged them? Then why not simply apologise for them. It's not hard. "Hey there, I am the commander of the American forces in Vietnam and I apologise for My Lai".

[motiv-8]

Umm, no. It's the guys at the tops partial responsibility that the guys in the middle and at the bottom do their job according to standards. Maybe the guy who made the mistake shouldn't have been the guy to make the call? It's the guys at the top who gave him the chance to make the call. Thus they hold partial responsiblity for his actions.

No, that's not how it works.

The fact that 'everything' has changed, wouldn't that prove that you made mistakes and you acknowledged them? Then why not simply apologise for them. It's not hard. "Hey there, I am the commander of the American forces in Vietnam and I apologise for My Lai".

I just said that Lt. William Calley, the commander of American forces at My Lai and the one ultimately and definitively responsible for what happened, did EXACTLY that. You are trifling.