Upcoming ATI cards to remain 40nm, 28nm questions

**mrmouth** · April 05, 2010, 10:43 PM

Lots of speculation that ATI would move to 32nm before Nvidia, but it looks like they might be neck n' neck due to a changed roadmap by TSMC. So it looks like architectural improvements on 40nm instead. This could effect any momentum AMD/ATI had.

The planned next generation graphics parts from AMD/ATI, known as Northern Islands, was initially designed to be manufactured on Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company’s (TSMC) 32nm process. Since the late 2009 announcement that TSMC was facing difficulties with its 32nm manufacturing node and would not be developing the process, plans had to change at AMD. Sources close to both companies indicate that the revised upcoming generation of graphics cards will most likely be made for the Taiwanese manufacturer’s established 40nm process and will feature design elements from both Northern Islands and Evergreen architectures.

Problems encountered by the main manufacturer of AMD graphics chips, TSMC, are likely responsible for this decision. Since it has been decided by TSMC to pull its 32nm process, the company also had to make changes to their initial approach at 28nm, resulting in more delays and uncertainty in the manufacturing schedule.

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**Roman_Man#3** · April 05, 2010, 11:34 PM

I don't see how it will affect ATI's momentum. ATI has more experience with 40nm than nVidia, and if they're bringing out an updated architecture, relatively soon, this just means more pressure on the Fermi update. Then when GF 28nm bulk process gets going, ATI will release a mid-tier to low-end 28nm Southern Islands card on that, similiar to the 4770 on 40nm. Then when they have some knowledge of 28nm, they'll bring Northern Islands onto 28nm asap.

**mrmouth** · April 05, 2010, 11:44 PM

Well this quite simply puts the two competitors neck n' neck. And there is speculation that Global Foundries is having some serious issues with 28nm. Both ATI and Nvidia had previously said that they targeted 28nm production for late 2010. So Nvidia could be ahead there. Understanding that it takes at least 2 quarters of production for a release.

This isnt to be taken as a rag on ATI thread. This is news, and fairly significant given that we thought we would see ATI 32nm by the end of the year.

**GasMask** · April 06, 2010, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Roman_Man#3

I don't see how it will affect ATI's momentum. ATI has more experience with 40nm than nVidia, and if they're bringing out an updated architecture, relatively soon, this just means more pressure on the Fermi update. Then when GF 28nm bulk process gets going, ATI will release a mid-tier to low-end 28nm Southern Islands card on that, similiar to the 4770 on 40nm. Then when they have some knowledge of 28nm, they'll bring Northern Islands onto 28nm asap.

Excellent post i would give you REP but i do not have this feature until may sorry.

**Freddie** · April 06, 2010, 05:39 AM

I would expect ATI to just refresh it's line up if there still using 40nm, a new architecture on the same manufacturing process 'could' send power usage through the roof if ATI follows the same approach with regards to performance whereby each new generation has doubled the performance on the last.

**Roman_Man#3** · April 06, 2010, 02:52 PM

I think ATI is still ahead of nVidia in terms of fab technology. They simply put a mid-tier 5000 card on 28nm and see what happens. nVidia on the other hand, has to put Fermi, an entirely new architecture, onto a completely new fab process again to see what happens. Fermi on an already present 40nm process caused a 6month delay, how do you think it would fare on a completely new 28nm. ATI is one step ahead in terms of fab tech.

And looking into this, it seems ATI had already removed 32nm from their roadmap and decided to go with 28nm back in november. We shouldn't have been expecting 32nm chips from them anyways, so GF cancelling 32nm makes no difference now.

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**Freddie** · April 06, 2010, 07:53 PM

Nvidia have historically always been cautious about adopting new manufacturing techniques as ATI have as far back as I can remember have always been the first to use a new lower process, Nvidia were even slow to adopt High-K in fact I think they waited a whole generation before introducing High-K.

If the reports are true that TSMC have cancelled 32nm that's not a big surprise they know GF will be up and running with 28nm soon and although 32 to 28 nm it would be enough IMO for Nvidia to think finding another fab partner (although that would be hard) as it would put them at an even bigger disadvantage especially when it comes to selling low end products which have little to no margin and there already under pressure from Intel who have integrated a GPU onto it's CPU's.