Collateral Murder! Wow :S

[Tacitursa]

Can anyone try and justify anything in this video it just seems so wrong and gun-ho. I dont even know what to say im at the moment, im a bit shocked. Are the army really allowed to engage so easily and kill people?

Near the end you can clearly see two small children sat there and the guy is like "Come on lets shoot" and he's actually getting a bit frustrated that he cannot take them out.

Warning : Contains graphic scenes and violence.

[Helm]

Are the army really allowed to engage so easily and kill people?

To them they're just doing their job, but this was an unfortunate friendly fire incident by the looks of it that kind of thing can happen, war is a pretty grim business outside of movies and video games.

[Tacitursa]

Didnt look like it to me. The guy shooting was enjoying himself. I beleive his comment was "Look at those dead bastards" "Nice".

And he was getting frustrated, Who the hell gets frustrated because they cannot kill people?

I would understand if they were showing signs of aggression or started firing but they werent doing anything , just walking along.

And then at the end there isnt even any weapons just 2 guys helping a wounded guy and they blow them up too wtf?

[Helm]

And he was getting frustrated, Who the hell gets frustrated because they cannot kill people?

To them it's just the equivalent of another day in the office and the printers jammed. In a war you can't really leave injured armed militants laying around because they could still pose a danger to yourself or someone else on your side. But in this case they made an error and if you make an error in warzone it will have fatal consequences for someone.

[Arch-hereticK]

ing hell, you can see the two children in the van clearly, and while that ass hole is looking at them he says - "come on, let us shoot."

He had a chance to say that they might be carrying cameras, but instead he said "confirmed, AK-47s...."

And the laughing, holy crap, that's gonna haunt me for a long time. At the very least they deserve to be court-marshalled or tried for murder. Manslaughter does not include laughter.

[43rdFoot]

Without the backstory, I too would assume they were walking with shouldered AKs, and the camera lens near the corner of the building looked like the end of an RPG. Is it a tragedy? Absolutely. But those reporters knew they were in a dangerous situation, and the gunners thought they were insurgents.

[43rdFoot]

When you think you are shooting insurgents, you think you are shooting at guys who have killed fellow soldiers. You want to kill as many fo them as possible to save the lives of your buds. Saving the lives of your friends will probably make you a little happy, and the realities of war mean that as horrible as it sounds, you don't care about the lives of those enemies.

I didn't see the kids until the video pointed them out. If I didn't know they were cameras I would have calle dthem weapons too. If I didn't know they were reporters, I would have called them insurgents. When you are worried about the lives of your fellow soldiers you are not thinking about the fringe possibility that the guys in your sights are reporters. I can't blame the Apache crews for what they did.

[empr guy]

So two of us saw them and two of us didn't, I still think a trained soldier should be able to spot such mind-bogglingly essential details

i didnt see them.

I didnt see the children until the vid pointed them out either. the military is trained to expect the worse, just a sad mistake.

I didn't see the kids until the video pointed them out.

3v2, i guess i win? Although i admit the pilots should be well trained in identifying these things, even if they were distance away.

[Darth_Revan]

wow what a crock of , the soldier in the heli and the pilot should both be court marshaled, dishonorably discharge and sent to prison for life or executed, this is ing ridiculous!!!!!!

[empr guy]

isnt this already in the mudpit? it is, so i'll just post the response from there.



that certainly looks like an RPG, not to mention the other guys who were identified as the camera crew with what looked like Ak-47's.

still, the crew did seem "gung-ho", but they were in a war zone and shooting at what they thought were guys shooting at their friends. Also, i never saw the children until the ground troops took them away. I think these pilots should be punished but it looks like an honest mistake to me.

wow what a crock of , the soldier in the heli and the pilot should both be court marshaled, dishonorably discharge and sent to prison for life or executed, this is ing ridiculous!!!!!!

because every single civilian death is easily preventable right? this is the real world guys, mistakes happen. When they happen in places like this people die. its unfortunete, but its reality.

[43rdFoot]

Why should they be punished if it was an honest mistake?

[empr guy]

i meant a small punishment, not something like court-martial. TBH i dont know what kind of punishments the military gives, so i cant recomend something specific, but something like an extra small arms identification class would seem fitting.

[Tacitursa]

The first shooting can be argued, I understand that.

But the second shooting is just insane, All people present were unarmed. There was no sign of any weapons or agression. You can clearly see children in the passenger seat.

They had absolutely no reason to kill those people. Terroist or not they were unarmed. You cannot shoot unarmed people.

[empr guy]

The first shooting can be argued, I understand that.

But the second shooting is just insane, All people present were unarmed. There was no sign of any weapons or agression...

They had absolutely no reason to kill those people. Terroist or not they were unarmed. You cannot shoot unarmed people.

yes, because when friends of the people you think are insurgents trying to kill you come up, take away wounded, and might be picking up the weapons there is absolutly no reason to kill them. the people were going to take and heal a suspected insurgent. it would seem odd to me if that guy never took up arms again and those other people werent insurgents themselves.

. You can clearly see children in the passenger seat.

thats wierd because i didnt see them.

[Arch-hereticK]

thats wierd because i didnt see them.

So two of us saw them and two of us didn't, I still think a trained soldier should be able to spot such mind-bogglingly essential details

[Tacitursa]

So two of us saw them and two of us didn't, I still think a trained soldier should be able to spot such mind-bogglingly essential details

Exactly and i beleive one of the essential requirements to be in the air force or part of any air combat is 20-20 vision and you have your eyes checked. If your eyesight isnt perfect you get shown the door. At least thats how it works for British armed forces.

The dude shooting didnt seem like he was even paying attention, he was more interested in the guy picking up a gun so he could shoot him some more and laugh about it.

[gambit]

I didnt see the children until the vid pointed them out either. the military is trained to expect the worse, just a sad mistake.

The only thing I can see that was wrong was identifying the first group as guys with "AK's" since even from the cam it looked nothing like an AK. Could've easily been another weapon though

[43rdFoot]

They were arriving in an unidentified vehicle, a type of vehicle that is routinely used by insurgents. They are arriving and appear to be trying to collect weapons and wounded. They were perfectly legitimate targets, and the crew wanted to kill them so they wouldn't be able to kill innocents and fellow soldiers.


It turns out they were cameramen, and their equipment resembled weapons given the limits of observational ability. It's a tragedy, but the type of which is not criminal. It was an honest mistake, not something that entailed a desire by the crew to kill innocents.

[Tacitursa]

They are arriving and appear to be trying to collect weapons

Really? are you sure we were watching the same video cause i see no such thing. The weapons were further down the road next to the dead bodies. I didnt see anyone move more than 4 metres from the van... They must of been collecting the invisible weapons.

[43rdFoot]

Really? are you sure we were watching the same video cause i see no such thing. The weapons were further down the road next to the dead bodies. I didnt see anyone move more than 4 metres from the van... They must of been collecting the invisible weapons.

It looked like they were collecting wounded and weapons. Given how little you could see, it was a logical conclusion, especially given the context of the scenario.