War of the Silmarils

[Gallus]

Ideal start dates are:
- 459 - Húrin and Huor return out of Gondolin to Dor-lómin.
- 463 - The first hosts of Easterlings appear in Beleriand.

At this time all Silmarils are still held by Morgoth and Finrod Felagund is alive. The Tale of Beren and Luthien begins in 465 FA and should (imho) be left out of this mod because it is impossible to portray it in a TW game.

[JorisofHolland]

Well, I remember us picking 462 for various reasons. I'm not really in the mood to defend that choice now.

[Ngugi]

Ah, Easterlings is a good argument...
If 463 then we with a minor step from lore (1 year in difference) can get Túrin born, and later matured 481 (if 4 TPY), which would be feat - unless this is in conflict with the teams aim.

Edit: nothing has to be defended, just some loud thinking from us which you make use of if interesting

[Gallus]

462 is the year of Morgoth's attack on Hithlum so if you want a fast-paced game it is a perfect start date. Since the Easterlings were neutral when they arrived you can easily put them on the map in 462.

[Macilrille]

It just makes me worry that you will have to build settlements; Gondolin and Menegroth as "Large Towns", etc. In that respect an early campaign would be better, with Hordes arriving to make their own place in Beleriand; Noldor x 2, Edain x3, Easterlings x 3.

But, I do not mind a start in 462, would be very nice indeed, but I still believe 455 would be better as Dagor Braggalach is the decisive battle in breaking The Siege of Angband and the Noldor's strength. Nirnaeth was an attempt at a comeback, but Braggalach was the decisive one- and Fingolfin was still alive.

Again, like Ngugi, I am but thinking aloud; 462 is fine.

Question though, it is ordained that the Noldor cannot defeat Morgoth, how then do they win? Send an emissary to the West? But they can only do that when all their hopes are crushed and their sin washed away by their blood. And it must be someone combining the blood of Elves and Men and The Powers. That is going to be a bit difficult; especially if you have won the Nirnaeth and restarted the Siege of Angband. In effect, Lore-wise, you can only win by loosing.

[JorisofHolland]

We haven't really thought out such things yet, but I'm just having an idea on that. Remember how you had to hold settlements for a certain time in the Crusaders campaign? We could implement that in some way.

And I'm not in the least offended by your thoughts on the start date. I meant to say we'd already discussed it for a long time before picking one, and the arguments you brought up had been considered already. Our reasons for 462 were the birth of some heroes (although it takes a little stretching of the timeline), arrival of the Easterlings and some stuff I don't remember.

[Ellin Athinaios]

Our reasons for 462 were the birth of some heroes (although it takes a little stretching of the timeline), arrival of the Easterlings and some stuff I don't remember.

Another main reason is that we can have one more evil faction (Sauron) in Tol-in-Gaurhoth, which was soon afterwards destroyed. And it's the time right before the Union of Maedhros and the Fifth Battle, which would of course be an excellent choice for a Total War game.

Also this is the time of Beren and Lúthien, which is an important story in the Silmarillion and can be used through events and missions and whatnot. And Finrod is still alive, which is definitely cool.

[Old War Horse]

Another main reason is that we can have one more evil faction (Sauron) in Tol-in-Gaurhoth, which was soon afterwards destroyed. And it's the time right before the Union of Maedhros and the Fifth Battle, which would of course be an excellent choice for a Total War game.

Also this is the time of Beren and Lúthien, which is an important story in the Silmarillion and can be used through events and missions and whatnot. And Finrod is still alive, which is definitely cool.

But if you started earlier, then you could have fingolfin and feanor alive which is what I think they are getting at.
As far as i'm concerned though, this mod looks like such an amazing concept. I wish you guys the best and say keep up the good work!

[_Feanor_]

Keep this good work up guys, i am fan of you and really looking forward to this cool mod !

[Ngugi]

If we want Fingolfin (and many do ofc), then there will always be submods tweaking timeline, so do not worry
I find the teams reasons well considered.

[Gallus]

Nothing was really happening during the siege of Angband so I understand the team's decision to start the game after Dagor Bragollach. Fingolfin is my favorite Tolkien character but it just does not make sense to start a Total War mod during the siege of Angband. Of course, the game could be started DURING the Battle of Sudden Flame which would be very cool as well.

[smoesville]

Nothing was really happening during the siege of Angband so I understand the team's decision to start the game after Dagor Bragollach. Fingolfin is my favorite Tolkien character but it just does not make sense to start a Total War mod during the siege of Angband. Of course, the game could be started DURING the Battle of Sudden Flame which would be very cool as well.

That could lead to most of the main characters getting killed in the start of the mod

[JorisofHolland]

Perhaps one day.

[Madril]

Don't blame me , but how many factions the mod will include ? I had read the preview but I'm lost with the different Houses and all ^^

[JorisofHolland]

It's in the first post:

Sindar
Egypt (High Elves) -> Falathrim
Mongols (Silvan Elves) -> Laiquendi of Ossiriand
Russia -> Kingdom of Doriath

Noldor
Denmark -> House of Fëanor
Poland -> House of Finarfin
Portugal -> House of Fingolfin

Edain
Hungary -> House of Hador (Dor-lómin)
Scotland (Dale) -> Haladin of Brethil

Easterlings
Spain (Harad) -> People of Bor
Venice (Rhûn) -> People of Ulfang

Creatures of Morgoth
HRE (OotMM) -> Sauron
England (Mordor) -> Morgoth

Dwarves
Moors (Dwarves) -> Dwarves of the Ered Luin (Blue Mountains)

[Madril]

All right , good luck for that work ! I love Doriath and Gondolin's units , they are really a great hommage to Tolkien's world !

[Gallus]

Since that is what really happened I see no problem with that. But I said already that I support the decision to start the game in 462 FA. "Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin" is my favorite Silmarilion chapter anyway and if Fingolfin indeed must die, than let him die in style. I sure as hell do not want him to be killed by a random orc. Although I would not mind him being the Lord of Beleriand... But in the end I think his duel with Morgoth is what makes him one of the greatest Tolkien characters...

See that what happens when you let me think aloud. In conclusion, I think the start in 462 is the best for the game but a start during Dagor Bragollach could be a good submod.

[smoesville]

I also wouldn't mind although what would happen if you won? That would be weird (and probably have lore-nerds frothing at the mouth ), quite cool though.

[Gallus]

Well TW games are alternative history so I guess if you won than you'd defeat Morgoth. But I have no idea how Morgoth will be represented anyway because I believe he cannot be defeated by the Children of Iluvatar.

[Macilrille]

Melkor/Morgoth cannot be slain by the Children of Iluvatar no and he can be defeated only by the Eldar being utterly defeated and their sin being washed away by their blood before they ask for aid in repentance; I already raised that question and Joris is giving it some thought.