Western Propaganda?

[Valmir238]

It has been well over half a century since the end of the second world war, and it seems to this very day, that the Eastern front is the most forgotten among the general public. Yet it was this theater of war that was the most critical, and it, by far overshadowed anything seen on any other front of the war. Why then has it been somewhat forgotten. There could be several reasons, for example; the Cold war (inwhich America detracted attention from Russia's accomplishments) or the lack of decent records kept by the Soviets.

When i went through school all i was taught about the second world war, was the D-Day landings, or in my case the Anzac's (Australian soldiers). People, even on these threads tend to glorify the American, British or German soldiers and dismiss the Soviets as been poorly, armed poorly trained peasant fighters.

Why do you think the Russian's have been so downplayed with their involvement in the great conflict, and even though it is a well known fact that they achieved great things?

[antaeus]

the eastern front would have been down played by the west because of the cold war, it's not exactly patriotic to heap praise on your enemy...

however since 1990 there's been a change in attitude... there's been plenty of western films based on the eastern front - even films made in germany and (although i can't speak for europe or america) it seems to be well taught in schools now.

[CiviC]

I don't have this impression that Eastern Front is forgotten. Eastern Front was very complex, and maybe it's easier to learn about Normandy. It's true that in the East, German war machine was crippled and decimated. In the first years of war indeed Soviets were a very low quality army from all points of view (see Winter War or Barbarossa Operation) but then they improved more and more with the experience of the war and became as good as Germans.

On the other hand how popular is in Soviet Union the War in Pacific, or Northern Africa, Italy and France? Each party is normal to be concentrated more on its own war action.

[Poach]

Living in the Western world, you tend to be taught of your own countrymen's efforts and achievements rather than others. Amongst the layman, who only knows as much as he was taught at school (D-Day, Home Front, maybe a bit of North Africa/Med Sea over here) it is easy to see why the Eastern Front can be overshadowed.

Anyone who claims to know their stuff about the War will certainly know of the Eastern Front and its importance in the war.

[hellheaven1987]

Well, trust me, China's and Soviet's role in Pacific War is even worse downplayed by Allies...

Americans?? I wonder what they would do if two milions angry Japanese veterans waiting them in Hawaii.

[Landsknecht_88]

Obviously most of the ground battles took place in the east, but keep in mind the significant amount of supplies, food, raw materials and military equipment the Western Allies shipped to the U.S.S.R. via the Lend & Lease. Much of the military equipment was outdated, sure, but the American trucks were vital for the Red Army (in the late war, 90% of the Red Army's trucks were American IIRC).

Well, trust me, China's and Soviet's role in Pacific War is even worse downplayed by Allies...

The Americans weren't dependent on the Russians or Chinese in the Pacific theater, since they (the Americans) fought the Japanese navy, not army.

Americans?? I wonder what they would do if two milions angry Japanese veterans waiting them in Hawaii.

The Japanese didn't have the logistical capacity to land even a few divisions in Hawaii, much less two million men. The situation of the Japanese was hopeless at best from the very onset of their war against the U.S., but they were nonetheless forced into the war because of Japan's need for oil, a resource they earlier got from the Americans, British and Dutch, but due to being overly ambitious in China and French Indochina they were embargoed.

[Farnan]

The Americans weren't dependent on the Russians or Chinese in the Pacific theater, since they (the Americans) fought the Japanese navy, not army.
.

We didn't?

I seem to recall there were over 330,000 Japanese Army Soldiers on the Philippines in 1944, 140,000 Japanese Army Soldiers in the Dutch East Indies and Solomon Islands, 18,500 on Iwo Jima, 31,000 on Saipan, 100,000 on Okinawa, and 316,000 in Burma (where the US played a part though the British led).

[Landsknecht_88]

We didn't?

I seem to recall there were over 330,000 Japanese Army Soldiers on the Philippines in 1944, 140,000 Japanese Army Soldiers in the Dutch East Indies and Solomon Islands, 18,500 on Iwo Jima, 31,000 on Saipan, 100,000 on Okinawa, and 316,000 in Burma (where the US played a part though the British led).

Weren't those soldiers under the Imperial Navy's control?

[pannonian]

Well, trust me, China's and Soviet's role in Pacific War is even worse downplayed by Allies...

Americans?? I wonder what they would do if two milions angry Japanese veterans waiting them in Hawaii.

From what I've read, the Chinese army wasn't much of a fighting force, especially offensively. I've read about the 38th division, which was the pick of the Chinese units in their area and which temporarily had the British 7th armoured brigade attached to it, but it says much that even this supposedly elite unit wasn't used to working with armour and artillery.

[hellheaven1987]

From what I've read, the Chinese army wasn't much of a fighting force, especially offensively. I've read about the 38th division, which was the pick of the Chinese units in their area and which temporarily had the British 7th armoured brigade attached to it, but it says much that even this supposedly elite unit wasn't used to working with armour and artillery.

Ya, next time we should just let those damned Britishs died in Burma.

The main problem about New 38th Division was that it was originally a paramiliary police unit until 1938, and never really recieved proper equipments unlike German-trained divisions (which only five divisions were partially equiped with German equipments). It was "elite" only because it had proper basic training and the recruits were bright enough to understand command (Chinese recruits had extreme poor quality due to lack of central recruitment program. Most time recruits were simply conscripted locally, and most qulified recruits knew how to avoid such conscription. Overall, majority of recruits were "retarded enough to die as cannon fodder" - as my grandfather said). The only Chinese division that had mechanized warfare experience was 200th Division, which equiped with Soviet T26 and trucks (got screwed because British again).

Overall, Chinese lacked the proper industry and system to equip and find proper recruits, hence it is probably quite a miracle how Chinese hold two millions Japanese on bay even after the initial disaster...

We didn't?

I seem to recall there were over 330,000 Japanese Army Soldiers on the Philippines in 1944, 140,000 Japanese Army Soldiers in the Dutch East Indies and Solomon Islands, 18,500 on Iwo Jima, 31,000 on Saipan, 100,000 on Okinawa, and 316,000 in Burma (where the US played a part though the British led).

Ya, thanks to US lend-lease that X Force could actually launch offensive operation independantly into northern Burma without arrogant British, and also able to start offensive operation in mainland in 1945.

[Erebus Pasha]

Ya, thanks to US lend-lease that X Force could actually launch offensive operation independantly into northern Burma without arrogant British, and also able to start offensive operation in mainland in 1945.

Arrogant British?

[pannonian]

Ya, next time we should just let those damned Britishs died in Burma.

The main problem about New 38th Division was that it was originally a paramiliary police unit until 1938, and never really recieved proper equipments unlike German-trained divisions (which only five divisions were partially equiped with German equipments). It was "elite" only because it had proper basic training and the recruits were bright enough to understand command (Chinese recruits had extreme poor quality due to lack of central recruitment program. Most time recruits were simply conscripted locally, and most qulified recruits knew how to avoid such conscription. Overall, majority of recruits were "retarded enough to die as cannon fodder" - as my grandfather said). The only Chinese division that had mechanized warfare experience was 200th Division, which equiped with Soviet T26 and trucks (got screwed because British again).

Overall, Chinese lacked the proper industry and system to equip and find proper recruits, hence it is probably quite a miracle how Chinese hold two millions Japanese on bay even after the initial disaster...

This Desert Rats site has a fair bit on Yenaungyaung, albeit from the POV of the 7th Armoured Brigade. From that account, it seems that the 38th Division did work well with the 7th Armoured Brigade as a combined arms force, perhaps even better than their former comrades of the Eighth Army did. But it doesn't take away from the seeming fact that the Chinese Army was atrociously ill-equipped, and not much of a fighting force.

Ya, thanks to US lend-lease that X Force could actually launch offensive operation independantly into northern Burma without arrogant British, and also able to start offensive operation in mainland in 1945.

Arrogant British? I'm genuinely puzzled by this comment. If you're suggesting that Britain should have given China more resources to allow them independent operations, there was something else going on on the other side of the Eurasian continent.

[Stavroforos]

The most forgotten parts of the war in my opinion are Burma, the resistance movements, and China. The Eastern Front is hardly neglected these days, especially since they've been portrayed through games such as Call of Duty and in movies like Enemy at the Gates.

[Stavroforos]

Nah man it was all carriers and airplanes and boom boom pow.

[Ronojoy1917]

The Chinese army may not have had much experience with artillery or armor, but honestly, what do you expect? It was just the Nationalists and Communists uniting after years of Civil War that followed the collapse of the backward Qing dynasty. They still played an important part in keeping the Japanese occupied.

[Tiberius Tosi]

It has been well over half a century since the end of the second world war, and it seems to this very day, that the Eastern front is the most forgotten among the general public. Yet it was this theater of war that was the most critical, and it, by far overshadowed anything seen on any other front of the war. Why then has it been somewhat forgotten. There could be several reasons, for example; the Cold war (inwhich America detracted attention from Russia's accomplishments) or the lack of decent records kept by the Soviets.

When i went through school all i was taught about the second world war, was the D-Day landings, or in my case the Anzac's (Australian soldiers). People, even on these threads tend to glorify the American, British or German soldiers and dismiss the Soviets as been poorly, armed poorly trained peasant fighters.

Why do you think the Russian's have been so downplayed with their involvement in the great conflict, and even though it is a well known fact that they achieved great things?

Hardly downplayed at all within recent years in my opinion. Of course one is going to like hearing about battles fought by your own nation first, so the western front and pacific theatre are going to be the main points of interest for an American (or even a Brit). The attitude on both sides of the argument is "you couldn't have won without us", and there is truth to both sides (although as an American I have to say they couldn't have won without us Anglo nations ). The Russian front is hardly ignored in American schools, and there is usually a large graph showing the statistics of dead and wounded, which obviously shows that the Western Allies kind of let the Soviets take the big hurt lol, but does, of course, not go on to say the war could not have been won without the Soviets.

As for poorly trained and poorly armed, they certainly did not have the best in the business in all truth, any nation would have a hard time properly training and equiping such a large force so quickly.

[Vermelho_Steele]

Why was the Eastern Front downplayed?

A: The Cold War saw the West and the Soviets clash against each other. The West didn't want the Soviets to sound heroic or brilliant. The Soviets did the same to the West as well in their people's eyes.

[Manco]

The Eastern Front was downplayed or rather ignored during the Cold War, but you can't say that's still the case.
It's been featured in several big budget movies, has a prominent role in most WW2 videogames and dozens of documentaries made in the West are about the Eastern Front. Considering every country usually focusses on its own contribution that's quite a lot of interest imo.

[Farnan]

There was also OSS Detachment 101, Merrill's Marauders, 14th Air Force, 10th Air Force, and 20th Air Force