Siege battles

[Dr.Own]

I can't siege for sheit.I always gain high causlties.I need some pointers.
What units work best?
Is arty worth it,if so wich ones?
Should I use ladders or towers?
How amny should I bring?
SHould I aim for the center?
Should I do a multi front attack?

[Stolet]

If you want less casualties, maybe you'll want to bring some siege machinery, such as catapults or trebuchets, to take out the enemy towers. This gets easy later on, when you get cannons sieges are not a problem (at least the walls and towers are not a problem). Also, it's pretty weird, but autoresolving sieges often gets you nice results with minimal casualties, even on VH/VH. Maybe you can try placing ladders somewhere away from the enemies so you can manage to get all of your men to the wall without losing any of them. Remember, towers can fire only if "controlled" by a unit standing nearby, so use that to your advantage. As for the best troops for sieges, dunno, you can't go wrong with units like dismounted feudal knights or armoured swordsmen or similar units, they'll kill off any units standing on the walls. As for the ladders/towers, there's a debate on which of the two is better. From my experience, I'd choose ladders over towers. You get to the walls faster, more men can get to the wall at the same time, and if you have some nice armoured heavy infantry you can move them through the enemy to gain ground and space for more of your soldiers.

[thursgun]

I'll tell you what works for me according to my experience:

You need a lot of infantry, hopefully half spear-man and half heavy non-spear infantry. Cavalry is not quite necessary because

a) Is not an open field, therefore you can't flank them, and
b) you want to take the settlement; no need for fast units to chase down the routing enemy because they will retreat to the inner central square anyway.

Archers are even less necessary than cavalry because

a) from outside: Firing to the enemy on the walls is pointless, you need like 400 arrows to kill one guy.
b) from inside: You need to put them on the walls so most of them can fire and can do it accurately. That takes time and you need to kill the enemy on the walls first with your infantry and chances are that you won't kill much enemies and it is very likely you will hit your own units.

So, go with only infantry and maybe one or two cavalry units to chase down the missile cavalry. Don't use archers/xbowmen/whatever.

That being said, now lets move to the siege equipment:

I like the early medieval style: battering ram + ladder + tower. The usage depends on how big is the defending force:

very small: just a ram will do.
small: ram + tower.
medium: ram + 2 towers
large: ram + 2 towers + ladder
very large: ram + 3 towers + ladder

Ram goes to the gate, towers to the front walls and ladder to any front wall that has archers. Ladders can run, that will prevent your towers from being torched by flamed arrows. If a tower or two get torched, don't worry just take the units and join them to the ladders or the other tower(s).

I choose tower over ladder because of empiric evidence: when I send my heavy infantry (HI) to fight the superior enemy HI with a ladder, after a -little- while they rout because they found themselves alone fighting (only 3 units at a time climbing up reaching the enemy). With a tower, a group of 10 or more soldiers charge over the enemy allowing their comrades to join the fight safely. They hold the siege much longer, long enough to wait for reinforcements and eventually win.

[Inflatable]

I choose tower over ladder because of empiric evidence: when I send my heavy infantry (HI) to fight the superior enemy HI with a ladder, after a -little- while they rout because they found themselves alone fighting (only 3 units at a time climbing up reaching the enemy). With a tower, a group of 10 or more soldiers charge over the enemy allowing their comrades to join the fight safely. They hold the siege much longer, long enough to wait for reinforcements and eventually win.

That reminds me of the most epic siege ever that I played...
Hungarians were bringing 4 Dismounted feudal knights and some weak spearmen units, versus my 3 units of peasants on the walls.
I was lucky because the ram and the tower was destroyed, but they still had ladders.
My peasants were just killing them off one by one and even though they had 30 units left in their "card" they routed... they kept trying even with larger armies, but every time I uttely crushed them

[Valandur]

I blast open usually 4-5 different points in the wall and send my heavy infantry through one of the breaches to directly engage the enemy army. I then send my Heavy Cavalry through the breach which is furthest away from the main enemy forces and hit the enemy on the flank while they are engaging my heavy infantry. Then they usually break and rout and I run them down with my cav.

Another way is to build a few ladders. Scare the enemy off the wall with artillery and then move your ladders up and send your archers up the ladders. After a while of point blank range killing the enemy will move up to the wall and attack your archers. During this same time, send your heavy infantry and heavy cav into the enemy forces because most of the enemy infantry will be going after your archers, which you take off the wall just before they are attacked.

[spartan117]

It is vital to know what units your enemy possesses. If you can, plan your assaulting army based off what your enemy has. If your enemy has lots of cavalry, for example, it would be wise to bring a good number of spear wielding units.

During deployment phase, scout the city blocks picking what routes you will use and where you can hit enemy units in the streets. Generally you want to avoid certain checkpoints that the enemy can use to lock down your army.

Learn how to maneuver your units in closed spaces. (ideal for moving in small thin streets) It can be much more difficult with high unit settings.

If you can rout enemy units in the streets for inside the city center it can turn into just a huge brawl which they will of course, fight to the last man.

Siege towers and rams tend to be a higher priority for enemy missile units. I tend to build a few extra with the sole purpose of drawing missile fire. (Effectively screening my other units from tower and archer fire)

Oh and be wary of enemy artillery like catapults and ballistas. If those can get off shots they can be devastating. Likewise, moving your catapults inside the city to fire at the crowded city center can lead to massive enemy casualties.

Generally speaking it is unwise to launch a brute force attack. This usually results in massive casualties.

Bring appropriate numbers and a general that will decrease the chance of your units routing. Quite regularly you will need to move your general around to increase the morale of nearby units that are close to breaking.


In Broken Crescent, I am playing as the Seljuk Turks. The Seljuks do not have early strong infantry units available. Mostly an assortment of cavalry and hybrid light infantry archers, along with some light infantry units available through the AoR. As a result I have to be creative in assaulting settlements. It is early in my campaign and there many are smaller rebel settlements. Castles, large towns, small towns, and wooden castles mostly.

When deploying I find it advantageous to spread my forces along different walls. The enemy will spread their forces to mirror my deployment. Often I will run 'fake' assaults at different locations to draw off the enemy with the goal of rushing through one broken gate. Although I have built ladders and siege towers, I hardly use them other then running feint assaults. This is mostly due to my lack of adequate heavy infantry. My units would get slaughtered and I am trying not lose too many men so that I can take multiple rebel settlements quickly without having to cross vast distances for replenishing units.

If my 'fake assaults' have worked. Often times I will have a few light infantry units tied to each of the "fake assault" groups. Many times the enemy units defending those areas will react to me rushing through another gate effectively allowing for flanking measures against the enemy units inside the city with my "fake assault" groups. I bring javelin units and plan to utilize archers for some deadly point blank range shooting from the rear. I will seize multiple streets all over the city while tying down certain units in some streets.

There are some other tactics I use however this was my general assault pattern with only light infantry, hybrid archers, and horse archers at my disposal. In broken crescent, artillery equipment are quite rare in much of the early game. This is due to the long recruitment times, expensive upkeep, and the high level settlement needed for even things like catapults. Which are rather ineffective against castle walls in this mod without there being a few catapults. I have to rely on trickery and the like.

[Loki_999]

I've had nothing but bad experiences with towers as they always end up on fire before getting to the walls if there are any archers defending. Ladders are never a problem for me.

As others have advised make your army heavy infantry mainly. Not much use for other types of units except the siege units.

If i have siege units in my army i usually take down the gates first and then take down a couple of sections of wall. This gives your army multiple entrance points and stops a nasty bottleneck occurring where a well defended settlement can cause you heavy casualties at the gate. Also if you want to get your larger siege equipment (ie: trebuchets) through the walls to attack inner walls/gates (ie: which occur in larger castles) then you have to take 1 section of wall down regardless otherwise you will not be able to take the inner walls (of course you can use ladders which will go through gates).

What i particularly like to do is if the walls are heavily defended then I forget about the gates and control my fire on a section of wall where lots of units are standing. You can wipe out huge numbers of units this way if the computer AI is stupid enough to keep his men on the wall, which does happen frequently. (this could vary depending on difficulty settings).

[Sitalkes]

In MTW 1 I always auto-resolved sieges because back then the castles always shot at you even if the walls weren't manned, causing massive casualties. MTW 2 auto-resloving is not always better, though, and it's more fun to try the battle. If you auto-resolve you don't get to kill or capture ALL the enemy, and no chance for a ransom. Auto-resolve spreads your casualties around all your troops which can be a bad thing - your artillery don't last long this way, whereas they normally don't take any hits if you shoot from maximum range. Auto-resolve seems to get more experience points for your troops and can get more attributes for your generals, which is rather strange I think (it can be difficult to get experience points for non-cavalry units otherwise). Auto-resolve can be a useful way to get out of a sticky situation, such as when I was laying siege with two full stacks plus a small stack and the besieged army attacks the small stack - result in normal battle: small stack with battering rams gets wiped out and larger stacks can't work out how to get in. Result with auto-resolve: I win though with significant casualties.

To minimise your casualties,
1. get an experienced spy into the fort/town, or several inexperienced spies. That gives you a good likelyhood that the gates will be opened for you. It also saves you money - bashing your way through causes damage that has to be repaired and might eat up the revenue from capturing the place.
2. Try not to go through gates that are guarded - this causes a lot of casualties from enemy action, burning oil and ballista bolts. Use towers to get over the walls and caputure them first, and/or artillery to shoot off the troops defending them.
3. Attack from as many directions as possible but not simultaneously. In the Teutonic campaign, the AI always defends the right-hand gate least (quite often not at all) and the front gate the most. Put a big show on in the front to pin your opponent (ie your general and the bulk of the army) and divide the rest up between the other two gates. Each gate needs a combined arms force of cavalry, infantry, and bowmen. Typically you attack the right-hand gate first, wait until the AI pulls troops away from another sector, then attack in that sector.
4. Bowmen are not useless especially if you have to attack the troops on the walls (they add to the damage done by the hand-to-hand). You need them in your army for field battles so you might as well use them. Spread them out and try to gang up on your opponents. Combined with artillery fire they can cause the troops to run away. If troops are not on the walls the archers can shoot at them over the walls and cause them to spread out or move away. Also since your archers are up front they soak up the casualties letting your other (more expensive) troops get in close. Once the enemy has routed to the central plaza, you can stand on the edges and shoot at him and quite often he will just sit and take it - but be prepared to back them up.
5. Cavalry can't climb walls but they can run down swordsmen and bowmen types and run around the streets of the settlement to make flank attacks. If you have a spy open the gates they can also rush through an open gate and claim it before your opponent can get there, thus stopping any shooting casualties. You may find that battles inside a settlement take a long time and casualties are large. However, the enemy will usually break if you are able to hit him in the rear- cavalry do that well. No use against infantry on a wall but same thing applies - get a second infantry unit to attack from another direction and the wall defenders will rout.
6. Once you are over/through the walls, the enemy army will rout to the plaza. Try to resist the urge to pursue him there. You will kill some enemy troops in the pursuit but probably the pursuers will get significant damage when they get to the plaza and are surrounded by general's bodyguard/ superior numbers. Try to organise your troops so they all arrive at the plaza (from as many different directions at once) together.
7. Mangonels are next to useless in sieges, don't use them. Ballistas are the most accurate and can take down wooden walls and gates but take a long time to do damage to stone walls. Sometimes it is better to shoot at a wall that is occupied by enemy troops not in the hope of damaging the wall but rather in the hope that the enemy troops will be scared away, vacate the wall and/or suffer incidental damage. Try to minimise damage done as you will have to pay for it to be repaired.
8. You can get additional siege equipment for each attacking stack - don't just put them adjacent to the settlement, attack it with each stack. You can also reinforce a besieging stack without affecting the amount of siege equipment they built
9. pikemen can't use siegetowers but they can use ladders. Make sure your besieging stack has enough infantry to move the siege equipment you choose. Some redundancy may be necessary - if your ram gets destroyed you may need a backup, or you may need it again if you have to go through a second gate.

[Loki_999]

1. get an experienced spy into the fort/town, or several inexperienced spies. That gives you a good likelyhood that the gates will be opened for you. It also saves you money - bashing your way through causes damage that has to be repaired and might eat up the revenue from capturing the place.

This works very well especially as Sitalkes pointed out there is more than one gate as the AI will be then more stretched defending each possible entrance. As no siege equipment is required you can have more combat troops available.

just be prepared for failure. Once used this tactic against a fortress/citadel(?) with 5 spies giving me a 95% chance of opening the gates. Of course the RNG decided this was the perfect time to be evil with me and the gates did not open. Full army sitting outside the gates with nowhere to go except to retreat.

[Stolet]

This works very well especially as Sitalkes pointed out there is more than one gate as the AI will be then more stretched defending each possible entrance. As no siege equipment is required you can have more combat troops available.

just be prepared for failure. Once used this tactic against a fortress/citadel(?) with 5 spies giving me a 95% chance of opening the gates. Of course the RNG decided this was the perfect time to be evil with me and the gates did not open. Full army sitting outside the gates with nowhere to go except to retreat.

I love those 150% chances of opening the gates lol. It would be very interesting to see the gates closed with that percentage. It should be impossible, but this is a weird game

[Sitalkes]

If you are facing multiple armies outside/inside a settlement:
If you attack an army sitting outside the settlement, the garrison joins them as an allied army. This can be a good thing - if you kill all the troops then you get inside the city without having to fight your way in. However, if you don't have enough troops to fight both armies I found that you can stop an enemy reinforcing with allies if you lay siege to them. Doesn't matter how big the besieging force. So you have an enemy army inside a city and one outside. You lay siege to the city with one unit first. Now you attack the army outside and you only have to fight the army outside, not both armies. After defeating that force, your can reinforce your besieging force and launch your attack with the combined army (if you have enough movement).

If you don't have enough movement to siege a city, here's a tip:
Often your cavalry will have enough movement to besiege a city but maybe your infantry can only move adjacent to the city. What you can do is move the cavalry up and besiege the city with them. Now move the infantry in and reinforce the cavalry. Even though the infantry can't lay siege the siege is not broken. Probably you can't assault that turn but next turn you can do that knowing that the enemy can't have built any more troops in the town and has lost a few to siege casualties.

[spartan117]

In a recent battle, I had placed a unit on the enemy walls with the idea of engaging the elite unit on the same wall but further away.Once engaged, I use artillery to batter down the walls underneath the section of the engaged enemy unit. lol. It is fun to see the unit attempt to escape but cant and take massive casualties as the wall collapses underneath their feet.

I took out half of this elite unit while only committing a light infantry unit.

[Julius Barca the Great]

In a recent battle, I had placed a unit on the enemy walls with the idea of engaging the elite unit on the same wall but further away.Once engaged, I use artillery to batter down the walls underneath the section of the engaged enemy unit. lol. It is fun to see the unit attempt to escape but cant and take massive casualties as the wall collapses underneath their feet.

I took out half of this elite unit while only committing a light infantry unit.

I've never thought of that before! I'll have to try it sometime...

[axnsan]

What I usually do is have a few peasants with me to carry the ram and some ladders. The first 20-30 units to climb up the ladders will always find themselves surrounded by enemies and die easily, so that's why I prefer sending peasants. They will eventually manage to get more men up than the enemy can kill, forcing them to space up and allowing my real infantry to climb safely.

Also use the L and U shaped walls to your advantage. For example if your infantry are fighting the enemy on one side of the L, it may be a good idea to have some missle units (crossbowmen are best since they never fire in arcs and do a lot more damage) on the other side to fire on them.

You can either have a high chivalry general to help your wavering units recover hope and keep them from routing, or you can have a high dread one and hope they'll rout first I personally prefer playing safe and so I choose chivalry generals.

If you sieze an oportunity to get your cavalry inside, go for it. It never hurts capturing the infantry that routs down from the walls so you don't fight them again in the center. And their morale will also be lwoer because they think they have "exposed flanks", even though your cavalry can't actually climb up and fight them.

Also shoot anything you can with your crossbowmen, be it infantry at a good angle on the walls or cavalry wandering around in the streets

[KnightOfPortugal]

In Britannia Campaign, I saw for the first time that light infantry can be usefull in Siege battles.